Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Classic Traveller

Classic Traveller Discussion on the granddaddy of them all, Classic Traveller!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 26th, 2014, 08:46 PM
Shadowfax's Avatar
Shadowfax Shadowfax is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 235
Gallery : 0
Shadowfax Citizen
Talking Alleged Zhodani atrocities

I found these news flashes concerning the alleged Zhodani atrocities on Ruby and Emerald and I just wanted to say that this is Imperial propaganda. The Zhodani are too nice to commit atrocities. It is just not our . . . ahem, their style. So, now, is there anyone of you out there who can tell me more about these alleged events? Don't be afraid to speak up. There are no wrong answers. Everyone is welcome.

Rhylanor/Rhylanor (0306-A434934-F) Date: 039-1110

The public relations office of the Imperial Navy refused to deny or to
confirm rumors of Zhodani atrocities against the citizens of Ruby and
Emerald during the recent occupation of those worlds. [JTAS #20]

Rhylanor/Rhylanor (0306-A434934-F) Date: 160-1110

Rumors persist of Zhodani atrocities against citizens of Ruby and Emerald
during the recent occupation of those worlds. No first hand accounts of the
occupation have been made available, as access to these worlds (indeed, to
all worlds occupied during the recent hostilities) is restricted. [JTAS
#21]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 27th, 2014, 02:36 AM
GypsyComet's Avatar
GypsyComet GypsyComet is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,791
Gallery : 3
GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++
Default

Yes. They are propaganda. That does not make then false statements.

You may attribute these stories to different definitions of the word "atrocity" as held by the Imperials and the Zhodani. The real world is full of examples that I won't pursue here, and the Imperial/Zhodani relationship was purposely presented with that understanding.

Things were done. The Zhodani don't consider them atrocities. The Imperials do.

Remember, Imperials are all criminally insane as far as the Zhodani are concerned.
__________________
We are all playing different games that happen to have the same name.

"Alright. Where did that Beaker get a cred stick?"
(Website down until further notice)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 27th, 2014, 08:00 AM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,738
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

I agree with Gipsy that the word "atrodicty" can have so many different meanings that it can be seen as such by one side and not by the other.

I guess for many Imperials, the idea of mass mind scanning, or to detain some people on the basis of their thoughts (and so, with unproven accusations, as most Imperial people will see) can be an atrocity, while it's not so for a Zhodani. I guess just the word "reeducate" sounds close to an atrocity for most of us, while it's very important in Zhodani law system...

OTOH, the Zhodani may see jailing people as without trying to cure their madness as an atrocity, as there is no such condemn in their law system, for if the convict is insane, it should be cured, and if that's not posible, then it should be eliminaed to protect the society, but just keeping him/her jailed is seen by them as too cruel (and useless) a punishment.

And never forget that in combat operations, decisions (right or wrong) are taken that can be retrospectively seen as atrocities, mostly by people that has never been in such operations and experienced the stress and need of quick decisions that combat needs.

In any case, I guess for the Zhodani true atrocities would be seen as insanity, and so avoided when posible, and condemned when they occur, and most unit commanders so accused went to reeducation at the end of the war.
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.

Last edited by McPerth; June 26th, 2015 at 05:29 AM.. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 27th, 2014, 09:03 AM
rancke's Avatar
rancke rancke is offline
Absent Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 12,238
Gallery : 11
rancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
I guess for many Imperials, the idea of mass mind scanning, or to detain some people on the basis of their thoughts (and so, with unproven accusations, as most Imperial people will see) can be an atrocity, while it's not so for a Zhodani.
To a Zhodani mass mind scanning wouldn't be an atrocity, but it's AFAIK something they can't do. IIRC the best Zhodani telepaths can read the minds of individuals for a couple of minutes half a dozen to a dozen times a day.

But I agree that the likeliest source of atrocity rumors (if they're not just made up out of whole cloth) would be mindreading of prisoners.


Hans
__________________
[I]"It also has to make sense."[/I]
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 27th, 2014, 12:33 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,738
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rancke View Post
To a Zhodani mass mind scanning wouldn't be an atrocity, but it's AFAIK something they can't do. IIRC the best Zhodani telepaths can read the minds of individuals for a couple of minutes half a dozen to a dozen times a day.

But I agree that the likeliest source of atrocity rumors (if they're not just made up out of whole cloth) would be mindreading of prisoners.


Hans
Well, perhaps "mass scaning" were a poor choice of words, though if several units from the Tavrchedle' (or Consular Guard) were sent as ocupation forces, enough of it would be to be seen as such.

And most those worlds being fairly low TL (5 for most of them), any such intrusion would be seen very negatively. I guess in other planets with more restrictive laws (where privacy is less valued) the effect would have been lower (even if the use of psionics is equaly abohorred).
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.

Last edited by McPerth; June 26th, 2015 at 05:31 AM.. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 27th, 2014, 02:23 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,791
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

Alleged = no real proof

Atrocity = mind scans and personality alteration
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 27th, 2014, 05:23 PM
Spinward Scout's Avatar
Spinward Scout Spinward Scout is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: On the edge of the Imperium...
Posts: 5,414
Gallery : 5
Visit Spinward Scout's Blog
Spinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout AwesomeSpinward Scout Awesome
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rancke View Post
To a Zhodani mass mind scanning wouldn't be an atrocity, but it's AFAIK something they can't do.
Telempathy can be done on multiple targets at the same time, depending on stages of success, per TNE.
__________________
I like my Traveller like the women I unfortunately usually date: Cold, Harsh, and Full of Drama.
In an effort to mitigate injury or death, the Space Patrol and the Interplanetary Safety Council recommend removing your head from Uranus before attempting any activities...
Excessive gravity is the only way to keep a good man down...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 27th, 2014, 06:49 PM
BeRKA's Avatar
BeRKA BeRKA is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cipango
Posts: 608
Gallery : 34
BeRKA Citizen
Default

The impies are liars. It's just propaganda.

Long live the brave freedom-fighters of Ine Givar!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 27th, 2014, 07:28 PM
rancke's Avatar
rancke rancke is offline
Absent Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 12,238
Gallery : 11
rancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeRKA View Post
The impies are liars. It's just propaganda.
Now that's an attitude that's going to create great confidence in anything you say.

Any time I hear someone declare that his side is entirely free of rotten apples, I know that anything he says is pure applesauce.


Hans
__________________
[I]"It also has to make sense."[/I]
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 27th, 2014, 11:01 PM
Magnus von Thornwood's Avatar
Magnus von Thornwood Magnus von Thornwood is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in the Riftborne Domains
Posts: 4,972
Gallery : 39
Visit Magnus von Thornwood's Blog
Magnus von Thornwood Citizen++Magnus von Thornwood Citizen++Magnus von Thornwood Citizen++Magnus von Thornwood Citizen++Magnus von Thornwood Citizen++
Cool *beep-flash-boom*

Not sure how folks see T5 as a source of canon, but it mentions in one of the examples (for Life Insurance) a Marine whose Prime was KIA on Jewell during the evacuation of the Starport. Seems the Zhodani (who I actually rather like in some ways) dropped a nuke on the Starport and that is how our protagonist died.

So, considering the Imperium's stance on the use of nukes in warfare perhaps that is the "atrocity" that is mentioned?
__________________
Laterness,
Lord Craig A. Glesner, PC,
Seventh Captain of the Imperial Guard, CO (O3) D Trp/3 Sqdn/4518th LIR,
Duke of Sinta, Count Smoug, Viscount Alell, Musayid, & Nii Khu, Marquis Malory & Phlume, Baron Donu-na,
Knight Retainer of the Emperor for Salla, Inarli, & Bhuur,
Knight Retainer of the Baron Jacha, Knight Retainer of the Baronet Kiind,
Knight of the Third Imperium for Trane,
Travellers' Aid Society Member #0543.

Thornwood-Daarnulud LLC

"Some annoying, some entertaining, a few informative, but, Always, Magnus."
dean

Last edited by Magnus von Thornwood; November 27th, 2014 at 11:01 PM.. Reason: Removed the redundancy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zhodani Shadowfax Classic Traveller 14 September 8th, 2015 07:37 PM
Zhodani in your TU? Rhialto the Marvelous In My Traveller Universe 70 April 15th, 2007 11:15 AM
Your Name in Zhodani robject The Lone Star 23 July 11th, 2003 12:17 AM
Zhodani kafka47 T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 11 January 6th, 2002 04:04 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.