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TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E Discussion of the Twilight: 2000 from GDW.

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Old March 24th, 2016, 11:08 AM
san*klass san*klass is offline
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Default Curious games master

Being a Traveller GamesMaster, I noticed the forum for Twilight 2000 and recalled seeing the game back in the day.

Intrigued by possibilities inherent, I wondered if anyone could please give me some info?

1) Is it actually a roleplaying game or just a small unit war game?

2) Linked in with the above, assuming it is an RPG, how do you write regular scenarios and keep them from just being a "storm the target and shoot it up" setting each time (no insult intended) ?

3) Also, is it written only from a US PC perspective, or are other nationalities supported? I am toying with a Russian perspective, hence the question.

Apologies for what are probably stupid questions, and hoping the forum members can enlighten me.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by san*klass View Post
Being a Traveller GamesMaster, I noticed the forum for Twilight 2000 and recalled seeing the game back in the day.

Intrigued by possibilities inherent, I wondered if anyone could please give me some info?

1) Is it actually a roleplaying game or just a small unit war game?

2) Linked in with the above, assuming it is an RPG, how do you write regular scenarios and keep them from just being a "storm the target and shoot it up" setting each time (no insult intended) ?

3) Also, is it written only from a US PC perspective, or are other nationalities supported? I am toying with a Russian perspective, hence the question.

Apologies for what are probably stupid questions, and hoping the forum members can enlighten me.
T2K was a RPG in a post nuclear war world.

Its main focus was military, while you could also play reconstruction and "empire building" in trying to stabilize the zone you (and usually your unit) are in.

It supported most NATO and WP countries (and some other ones).

As an aside, it's setting was then expanded, 3 centires latter, to become Traveller 2300/2300AD setting.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by san*klass View Post
1) Is it actually a roleplaying game or just a small unit war game?
It's an RPG where the typical party is the remnants of a small military unit.

Quote:
2) Linked in with the above, assuming it is an RPG, how do you write regular scenarios and keep them from just being a "storm the target and shoot it up" setting each time (no insult intended) ?
A common theme was just "getting home". The unit is basically behind enemy lines when the war "stops". Not so much peace breaks out, rather the armies are just exhausted and give up.

So, you're a guy from Nebraska with your squad stuck in Poland. "What are our orders for today Sergeant?" "We don't have any. There aren't any more orders. We're on our own."

Quote:
3) Also, is it written only from a US PC perspective, or are other nationalities supported? I am toying with a Russian perspective, hence the question.
It works from any nationality. There's certainly a NATO bend to it, but there's equipment guides and what not for Soviet forces.

Also, there were at least 3 versions. The original version, version 2.x which aligned the mechanics with TNE and Dark Conspiracy (when GDW adopted a "house" system), then there have been recent releases where they updated the timeline, since here we are in 2016 and you may have noticed we didn't have a nuclear war 20 years ago.

Then there were other supplements to let you reorient the campaign if post WWIII is not your thing, including MERC: 2000, which is a modern mercenary source book, Twilight Nightmares, which is kind of an X-Files-y horror source book, and Cadillacs and Dinosaurs which plops you in to the world of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs.

And, as McPerth mentioned, the T2K timeline is foundational to the history of T2300, but the systems were quite different.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
Then there were other supplements to let you reorient the campaign if post WWIII is not your thing, including MERC: 2000, which is a modern mercenary source book, Twilight Nightmares, which is kind of an X-Files-y horror source book, and Cadillacs and Dinosaurs which plops you in to the world of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs.
Wouldn't Dark Conspiracy also fall into this category?
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Wouldn't Dark Conspiracy also fall into this category?
Yep.

Note also:Task systems
T2K 1E: d%, 3 difficulty levels, wholly different game engine
T2300/2300AD: 1d10+skill vs TN, 5 difficulty levels. Incompatible with other games
The GDW House System
T2K 2.0, C&D, DC 1.0: d10 vs Skill*diff, 3 difficulty levels. Note C&D has very different CGen.
T2K 2.2, DC 1.2: d20 vs (stat+skill)*diff, 5 difficulty levels
TNE: d20 vs (stat+skill)*diff, 5 difficulty levels, significant CGen differences, attribute range differs.
and the Post-GDW third party stuff
DC2.0 was essentially the same as 1.2, but was released by a 3rd party company.
T2013: (skill)d20 ea vs att; count successes. Incompatible with prior editions.

Note also: GDW did NOT CHANGE TRADE DRESS when they updated the T2K and DC core rulebooks to the .2 versions. The CD's contain only the .2 versions.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Wouldn't Dark Conspiracy also fall into this category?
I don't really know Dark Conspiracy. Looking at the wiki, it's doesn't seem like the game world is a derivative of the aftermath of T2K. Plus there's some extra-dimensional horror element as well, which is certainly not in T2K.

Mechanically, they'll certainly be similar.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:40 PM
san*klass san*klass is offline
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Gents many thanks for the info (and putting up with stupid questions).

I am looking for a "war is hell" WW3 ruleset today from a Soviet perspective in the early 80's. I was tempted by the AFMBE ruleset ( but without zombies or supernatural obviously) just because it is quite gritty and has a good useable set of vehicle rules. But something just didn't gel.

Then I saw This T2K forum and got thinking.

I guess that I am going from a "opposing soldiers are Orcs" and "tanks are dragons" perspective, and wondering if WW3 could be played out from the continuing missions of a Soviet Motor Rifle Platoon?

Players would be the Platoon Leader, his Assistant, Squad Leaders and any Specialists (RPG Gunner, Designated Marksman etc).

I am just stalling over how you keep such a campaign fresh and not overly same-eyy ??
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
I don't really know Dark Conspiracy. Looking at the wiki, it's doesn't seem like the game world is a derivative of the aftermath of T2K. Plus there's some extra-dimensional horror element as well, which is certainly not in T2K.

Mechanically, they'll certainly be similar.
Well, you said if post WWIII is not really your thing. I've never played Dark Conspiracy, but the articles in Challenge seemed quite interchangeable with T2K.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by san*klass View Post
Gents many thanks for the info (and putting up with stupid questions).

I am looking for a "war is hell" WW3 ruleset today from a Soviet perspective in the early 80's. I was tempted by the AFMBE ruleset ( but without zombies or supernatural obviously) just because it is quite gritty and has a good useable set of vehicle rules. But something just didn't gel.

Then I saw This T2K forum and got thinking.

I guess that I am going from a "opposing soldiers are Orcs" and "tanks are dragons" perspective, and wondering if WW3 could be played out from the continuing missions of a Soviet Motor Rifle Platoon?

Players would be the Platoon Leader, his Assistant, Squad Leaders and any Specialists (RPG Gunner, Designated Marksman etc).

I am just stalling over how you keep such a campaign fresh and not overly same-eyy ??
Then T2K may serve you well. There are many equipment descriptions for WP block too, and in the .2 versiˇn there were rules for creating characters from most armies involved (Russian included) in the core book.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by san*klass View Post
Gents many thanks for the info (and putting up with stupid questions).

I am looking for a "war is hell" WW3 ruleset today from a Soviet perspective in the early 80's. I was tempted by the AFMBE ruleset ( but without zombies or supernatural obviously) just because it is quite gritty and has a good useable set of vehicle rules. But something just didn't gel.

Then I saw This T2K forum and got thinking.

I guess that I am going from a "opposing soldiers are Orcs" and "tanks are dragons" perspective, and wondering if WW3 could be played out from the continuing missions of a Soviet Motor Rifle Platoon?

Players would be the Platoon Leader, his Assistant, Squad Leaders and any Specialists (RPG Gunner, Designated Marksman etc).

I am just stalling over how you keep such a campaign fresh and not overly same-eyy ??
T2K2.2 (the T2K2 CD is 2.2) will give you what you need. NPC's are cheap and easy, and go down quick compared to PC's or full-stat NPCs. Soviet Character mods are in the core rules.

It can be played long term... keeping it fresh probably involves an evolution of the campaign.
  • Phase 1: Американцы туда, где?
    The fight against the US army in the final weeks before and first month after the "Good luck, you're on your own!" message.
  • Phase 2: Американцы не приветствуют!
    The US Army's remnants start to have some units decide to become local warlords. Kick them out.
  • Phase 3: Привет! где наши поставки?
    Central Command forgets you exist.
  • Phase 4 Мы едем еще дома?
    Since CenCom forgot you exist, your turn to become the local warlord.

That help?
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
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Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
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Old March 24th, 2016, 09:05 PM
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Something to be aware of is that combat is rather dangerous. It's actually tweaked so that PCs probably won't die from being shot, but the healing rules are rather realistic, and once shot, it will take days to recover.

If someone is shot multiple times, or seriously wounded, it will take LOTS of days to recover.

Thus, IMO, playing with a whole platoon should be a good thing, players may want/need backup PCs to play while their originals are in the hospital, or are walking wounded.

A side effect of that should be that players should feel encouraged to keep each session from becoming "storm the target and shoot it up", as you say. There needs to be negotiation, planning, and/or stealth involved.
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