Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Traveller Wargames

Traveller Wargames Discussion of the various Traveller wargames and miniatures systems.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 9th, 2004, 11:44 PM
aravain aravain is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aboard the AMC "Nobody\'s Fool"
Posts: 160
Gallery : 0
aravain Citizen
Question

Wow,........a *virgin* area!! [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]


Could someone suggest a good single source of information or rules for minature starship warfare for T20. Perhaps something that is either on the net or in a relatively inexpensive game. Is there a Traveller version? Our group is trying to flesh out the T20 starship rules and trying to add a little depth into the role-playing aspect without tacking on too many new rules. The T20 information is not quite detailed enough for our group. Something along the lines of "Ironclads" in complexity would be great. Almost all of the battles would be between only two ships.

Thank you for any help and feel free to transfer this post to the T20 area if needed!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 9th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Malenfant
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Post

Well, there is always the BITS Power Projection rules, based on Full Thrust:

Escort version - the basic ship-to-ship combat version

Fleet version - the full on everything-an-the-kitchen-sink version
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 10th, 2004, 01:11 AM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa (Ontario Subsector/Canada Sector)
Posts: 2,293
Gallery : 0
kaladorn Citizen
Post

I have a question:

I'm an FT player. In FT, a small (low mass rating) ship like a corvette or the like, had 3 or 4 hull boxes, and a good roll with a single beam battery could make it go POP!

While this makes sense in the context of a fleet battle game, in the context of an RPG, that'll really annoy your PCs.... "What? One roll of three stinking dice and we're all dead? What kinda crap is that?"

So, how does PP:E handle small ships like PCs are likely to have, like Beowulfs, Patrol Cruisers, Corsairs, etc? How does it make them survivable enough to be interesting? How are player skills factored in (for RPG purposes)? And how does it integrate with PP:F?

Yes, it sounds like I'm asking for a review... ideally by someone who has some idea about Full Thrust (Siefert, where ya hiding?).
__________________
"Tell them, that from this place we will deliver notice to the parliaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness. And we will hold that line, .. no matter the cost." -- Cpt. Sheridan "The Long, Twilight Struggle"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 10th, 2004, 02:55 AM
siefertma2 siefertma2 is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Muskego, WI
Posts: 644
Gallery : 0
siefertma2 Citizen
Send a message via AIM to siefertma2
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kaladorn:
I have a question:

So, how does PP:E handle small ships like PCs are likely to have, like Beowulfs, Patrol Cruisers, Corsairs, etc? How does it make them survivable enough to be interesting? How are player skills factored in (for RPG purposes)? And how does it integrate with PP:F?
Hmmmm... I'm afraid that you're not going to like the following answer. Power Projection's conversion system states that every 500 d-tons equals one damage box. Therefore, your 100 dt scout only has one DP, as does your 200 dt far trader or your 500 dt SDB.

PP was not meant to be an RPG supplement, but a stand alone space combat game with a bias toward capital ships. However, I'm sure that with a little thought, some modifications can be made to steer it toward that direction.

Hey, Dominic! You have anything to add?
__________________
Later,
Mark A. Siefert
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 10th, 2004, 03:58 AM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,713
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Post

Its easy enough to convert to PC scale ships, just equate 1 damage box to a lower hull tonnage (20t works for me) and play as usual. Just remember to scale up the large ships if they turn up or the PCs may think they can take out destroyers
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 10th, 2004, 10:52 AM
daryen's Avatar
daryen daryen is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Frisco, TX, USA
Posts: 1,668
Gallery : 0
daryen Citizen
Post

But wouldn't you then have to scale up the damage, leaving you in the same situation?

(In other words, your Beowolf now has 10 boxes instead of just one, but that laser shooting at you does 25(!) times the damage, too. Either way, you are blowing up in a single shot.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 10th, 2004, 12:05 PM
siefertma2 siefertma2 is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Muskego, WI
Posts: 644
Gallery : 0
siefertma2 Citizen
Send a message via AIM to siefertma2
Post

(Mark pulls out his copy of Power Projection Fleet)

A few things to note: A Power Projection game turn is equal to 50 minutes of real time. The book states that "each attack does not reflect a single weapons strike but rather tens of minutes of area bombardment..."

Perhaps what needs to be done is to scale down the time scale. Of course, that would probably mean that you would have to adjust the distance scale (1 inch equals .25 light seconds) which would in turn adjust the ship's thrust rating and weapons ranges.
__________________
Later,
Mark A. Siefert
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 10th, 2004, 02:09 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,713
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Post

There's no need to adjust the damage scale. The important thing is how it plays, IMHO, and for that you need a PC 200t Trader to be able to take a few hits. The idea is to model PC scale small ship combat, 10t-1000t. You can easily adjust the time scale and range to match any previous Traveller incarnation as well.

There is a long history of Traveller ship combat systems changing scales of fire (look at the damage difference between a Book2 triple laser turret and the same in High Guard) and movement, timescale etc. As long as you have something you're happy with and it works, use it [img]smile.gif[/img]
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 10th, 2004, 04:29 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa (Ontario Subsector/Canada Sector)
Posts: 2,293
Gallery : 0
kaladorn Citizen
Post

I'm also assuming, if it is like FT, that a 'beam' is actually a 'beam battery' (a la High Guard I suppose). That is to say, if you have a large capship with 300 laser turrets, your SSD won't have 300 weapon boxes on it.

You can change the mass/DP scale and probably be okay anyway, given the shorter timescales. You'd need to adjust your definition of an MU (Measuring Unit) though to correspond to timescales and presumed thrusts.

Maybe this is a good avenue for the PP producers to investigate PP:RPG to tie in with the idea of characters using PP as a space combat mod for the RPG. Maybe they could (if the conversion was small) just do a $5 PDF for it.

And no one has mention skills... I assume (knowing FT mechanics) that they would be a big bugaboo to add in.
__________________
"Tell them, that from this place we will deliver notice to the parliaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness. And we will hold that line, .. no matter the cost." -- Cpt. Sheridan "The Long, Twilight Struggle"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 10th, 2004, 05:11 PM
Whipsnade's Avatar
Whipsnade Whipsnade is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dover, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 5,916
Gallery : 5
Visit Whipsnade's Blog
Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+
Post

Mr. Barclay,

I own PP:E and had the pleasure of playtesting PP:F. (I also pre-ordered it from Warehouse 23.) The PP games are excellent naval wargames. They are also not very well suited for playing with small ships; i.e. PC vessels.

As the other responders have already mentioned, you can fiddle with time and scale to 'downsize' the PP games for PC use. Adding player skills to the mix will be bothersome however.

The PP games use 1D6 for most rolls. There isn't a lot of 'room' to cram different skill levels in that span. ForEx: The difference between Pilot-1 and Pilot-3; quite substantial in Mayday or HG2, would get lost in PP:E or PP:F.

Your assumption regarding weapon boxes on the SSD representing batteries is correct. Weapon ratings that can be 1 thru 9 in HG2 are only one of 2 ratings in the PP games.

Like my reply in your ground combat rules thread, whether a GM uses PP:E or Mayday will depend in the type of campaign she is running.


Sincerely,
Larsen
__________________
"The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves." - Mike Wightman
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.