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  #21  
Old September 1st, 2007, 11:04 PM
Mytholder Mytholder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo View Post
"Why not simply add a Characteristic Modifier table and say 2D6 + Skill + Characteristic Modifier vs TN?"

Beacuse it requires a secondary line of information on your character sheet, which in turn makes the actual Characteristic score redundant.
Not if you're doing other stuff with the Characteristic, like using it as your damage capacity.
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  #22  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 12:07 AM
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Characteristic bonuses have been tried and tested for 30 years and no-one ever got their character sheets in a twist because they had to write +2 next to a stat.

Just because something is old doesn't mean it's useless - unlike a lot of the new-fangled RPG fashions out there ...
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  #23  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 03:35 AM
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The +/- 5 for characteristics may be relative, if skills range from 0-15...
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  #24  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 04:05 AM
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The only problem with a Char-7 is that the characteristic gain then has identical weight to skill weight.

I'd much prefer truncate((char-7)/2))
Which tables out to
15-16 +4
13-14 +3
11-12 +2
9-10 +1
6-8 +0
4-5 (-1)
2-3 (-2)
1 (-3)

This makes stats gain half as valuable as skill gains, and thus gives a reason to actually bother with skill gains.

Even with a listed bonus, if damage still is done to stats, the physicals (at least) are non-redundant.
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  #25  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The only problem with a Char-7 is that the characteristic gain then has identical weight to skill weight.

I'd much prefer truncate((char-7)/2))
Which tables out to
15-16 +4
13-14 +3
11-12 +2
9-10 +1
6-8 +0
4-5 (-1)
2-3 (-2)
1 (-3)

This makes stats gain half as valuable as skill gains, and thus gives a reason to actually bother with skill gains.
I like that.

Quote:
Even with a listed bonus, if damage still is done to stats, the physicals (at least) are non-redundant.
Oooh great point! One I need to keep in mind...
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  #26  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg View Post
The +/- 5 for characteristics may be relative, if skills range from 0-15...
True, but it still needs to be removed from the mechanic and simply found as a characteristic mod. It's gonna be precalc'd anyway.

That said, I have issues with skills running 0-15 on a 2d6 system.
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  #27  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
That said, I have issues with skills running 0-15 on a 2d6 system.
Does seem outta wack...

Aramis' solution sounds interesting...*

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  #28  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Bromgrev View Post
Characteristic bonuses have been tried and tested for 30 years and no-one ever got their character sheets in a twist because they had to write +2 next to a stat.

Just because something is old doesn't mean it's useless - unlike a lot of the new-fangled RPG fashions out there ...
They didn't use this approach in Classic Traveller. In Classic Traveller, they didn't have a stated core system, but used a non-fixed Characteristic bonus in all of the sub-systems, similar to the one outlined above.

The fixed Characteristic bonus concept only came in with Mega-Traveller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
A +2 is something that won't be seen very often at all by any character considering that any task with a TN of 7+ will preclude even characters with a 12 from getting a +2 bonus on an average task roll.

It also doesn't have any penalty for those with penalize those with a very low characteristic score.
I'm not sure that a complex task of TN 7 or more should be able to get a higher Characteristic bonus than +1 - the more technical the task, the more important it should be to get a good skill level.

You could easily expand the system to also state:

Quote:
-1 penalty for Characteristics lower than the TN.
-2 penalty for Characteristics half or less than the TN.
Thus: you would get a range from -2 to +2 in Characteristic penalties/bonuses; it would directly tie in the TN range to be on the same scale as the Characteristic scores, and you wouldn't need a secondary line of calculated penalties/bonuses.
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Last edited by Echo; September 2nd, 2007 at 06:36 AM..
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  #29  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 07:47 AM
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Why don't they just use an intuitive percentile system?!

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  #30  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 08:01 AM
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My math is slightly more complicated than aramis': truncate((Char+1)/2)-4

The "+1" makes the middle of the range at 7 instead of 8, and makes it run -3 to +3 (instead of -3 to +4). The only way to get the -3 is with a 1, and the only way to get a +3 is with 12 or better. (I had trouble with the +4 at the top end of aramis' scale. )

Echo, the only thing with your system is that 7+ is not a complex task, but an average one. Unless of course they change it to go higher with a skill range of 0-15.

Actually, in some ways, I can see the balance of skill=0-15 (vs stat). But, it doesn't work in a 2d6 environment (as Hunter notes). It also doesn't "scale" to the stats properly, as the skills start at 0, where the stats "start" at 7. Having the two be identical (in range) might confuse folks on that concept.

And, I'm with aramis on the idea of a non-lover of SF writing a SF game - even if he is a professional writer. That's a lot like the idea that anyone with a teaching certificate can teach any subject. In the RW, you have to know the subject, too.
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