Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Random Static > Non-Traveller Gaming

Non-Traveller Gaming A forum specifically for discussing those other games we like to play.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 27th, 2018, 06:31 PM
Terquem Terquem is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Gallery : 0
Terquem Citizen
Default Starleader Assault - MicroGame #21

Is there anyone here who might know of a resource for hunting down a copy of the rules for Starleader Assault, Metagaming Concepts, MicroGame #21?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 27th, 2018, 08:15 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 28,359
Gallery : 53
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
Is there anyone here who might know of a resource for hunting down a copy of the rules for Starleader Assault, Metagaming Concepts, MicroGame #21?
Not that don't break the board rules. Kinda want a copy myself.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 27th, 2018, 09:04 PM
Terquem Terquem is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Gallery : 0
Terquem Citizen
Default

For sure not that. I want to buy them, even if it is only a PDF, but I suppose it is one of those Metagame titles we might never see again due to Mr. Thompson's choice to remain out of the gaming world

With Steve Jackson finally getting the rights back to his games I was hoping this one might escape as well
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 28th, 2018, 01:23 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 28,359
Gallery : 53
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
For sure not that. I want to buy them, even if it is only a PDF, but I suppose it is one of those Metagame titles we might never see again due to Mr. Thompson's choice to remain out of the gaming world

With Steve Jackson finally getting the rights back to his games I was hoping this one might escape as well
I don't believe it has SJ's authorship, so probably not.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 28th, 2018, 08:53 AM
David Johansen David Johansen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 480
Gallery : 0
David Johansen Citizen+David Johansen Citizen+
Default

I picked up a copy at a garage sale years ago. It's possible I still have it around in a box somewhere but I haven't seen it. I picked it up because I had seen it in the gaming store but never bought it.

I wasn't impressed. There's a hexmap of a bridge similar to the Enterprise's, some uninspired counters, and a booklet. The rules are similar to TFT, 3 stats not the same ST, DX, IQ, 3d roll under IRRC, and two pages of one line weapon stats with designations like zf75 with no description of what they are or how they work. I get that it's a tiny booklet but could they at least say "laser pistol" or "disintegrator pistol?" Something descriptive.
__________________
Be warned, Spacemaster Privateers is my all time favorite rpg and it makes T5 look well organized, well illustrated, well laid out, simple, and well polished by any comparison you could care to make.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 28th, 2018, 01:03 PM
Orr Orr is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 468
Gallery : 0
Orr Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I just bid on a physical copy of the game at eBay...

Leaving aside the question of making a personal copy and then selling the physical one, I hope you're not paying much for that eBay item, even if you plan on recouping some of the cost later. Starleader: Assault! is a lousy game. You will be very disappointed when you finally see and read it.

Like David wrote, it's a very distant cousin of TFT. Howard Thompson designed it and obviously borrowed bits from Steve Jackson's designs for Metagaming. It's also obvious that Thompson borrowed bits from Snapshot. His notes say he began development in '79 the same year the GDW game was released and the action point system in both games might as well be the same.

Another source Thompson borrowed from was Star Trek. The map has a warp drive marked on it and there are rules for a "jumper", aka transporter. The "jumper" has only limited use in the game and is a good example of something which appears frequently throughout the materials. There are rules, attributes, items, and equipment which have little or no use in SL:A but which whose use is promised in future products - products which never happened.

Unlike TFT, all physical attributes in SL:A are contained in one attribute against which all damage counts. The other two attributes, intelligence and emotion/morale, have limited uses in the game. Like the "jumper" more uses for them are promised in future games which never happened.

Mechanically, the game uses different numbers of d6 for different purposes; 4D6 for "To Hit" rolls and 2D6 for damage roles. Both rolls can be modified in various way but there are no weapon skills. Characters can carry equipment which helps them in combat, but their own skills do not count.

David's description of the weapons is spot on. There are ~20 "pistols" and +35 "rifles", but those weapons are named and not described. Similarly, there are +25 armor types. The various names of armor types are more descriptive than the names given to the weapons.

Armor is where the game shows it's only trace of originality. While armor effects the 2D6 damage roll in a usual manner, most armor choices have ratings for "sockets" which allow characters to carry and uses various "gadgets". Some "gadgets" help in combat, some are medical, and others have no use in the game. Just like the "jumper" and attributes I mentioned above, their use is promised for future nonexistent games.

David already described the counters and map. He was kind when he did so.

If you're a collector, the game will round out a Metagaming collection. If you want to play it, you'll be disappointed.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 28th, 2018, 01:46 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 28,359
Gallery : 53
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Since US law only allows retention of non-original-form copies while you retain ownership of said original-form...

Any suggestions of "Buy, Copy, Sell" are piracy, and even suggesting such is an automatic infraction.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 28th, 2018, 02:45 PM
Terquem Terquem is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Gallery : 0
Terquem Citizen
Default

Thank you for the clarification. I understand

Now, about the rules, thanks for adding what you all already know. This is what gets my interest. I was never completely happy with Snap Shot and I liked the simplicity of TFT:ITL

so I would like to see how someone else tried to marry these two before I take a shot at doing my own version. I tried to write up a version of Snap Shot with my own ideas when I was about 16, but have never gone back to thinking about what it was I really wanted in a "tactical"/RPG-centric man-to-man combat game of the far future.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 28th, 2018, 03:27 PM
Orr Orr is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 468
Gallery : 0
Orr Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
...I liked the simplicity of TFT:ITL...

Believe me, SL:A has none of the simplicity of TFT's Melee or Wizard. Let me use the "To Hit" and "Damage" throws as an example.

The "To Hit" is a 4D6 "roll equal or under" throw. You take the weapon's "density" rating, add the target's size, subject the size of any obstacles, and then add DMs from large list of possibilities. The "Damage" roll is 2D6, plus the weapon's "punch" rating, minus the armor rating, and add DMs from another huge large of possibilities.

The game has 22 pistols and 41 rifles all of which have their own "density" and "punch" ratings. There are 31 types of armor all of which have a different damage rating. Most of the rifles cost "action points" to use and most of the armor costs "action points" to wear. In many cases, those costs are fractional. Some pistols and rifles also need magazines, packs, and cords which then require armor that has the right numbers of sockets and cords.

Quote:
I would like to see how someone else tried to marry these two before I take a shot at doing my own version.
I don't think Thompson married TFT and Snapshot. While he borrowed a few ideas from both, SL:A is definitely it's own mess.

Making your own version is a good goal. Just how SL:A can help you with that is another question.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 28th, 2018, 03:58 PM
Terquem Terquem is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Gallery : 0
Terquem Citizen
Default

Thanks!

Several years ago I wrote a complete set of rules for 6mm sci-fi warfare, called "Deployment Zone"

In those rules I took the position that the "to hit" roll was a complication that could be eliminated (Armies of the future are trained and experienced in "hitting" what they are aiming at, the real question was did they hit it "Hard Enough"

I applied a Range Power Attack roll to the target's Armor Rating, and if the roll exceeded the armor, by any amount, a single "hit" was inflicted. If the roll was double the armor value, another hit could be inflicted, and the progression continued.

I've always wanted to write a set of starship encounter combat rules using the same principle. If you have a target, you roll the power of your attack and compare it to the armor of the target (possibly modified by cover, or other "game elements" such as fields of force, defensive hologram programs, whatever, and if the power beats the armor, you inflict a hit

Maybe for man-to-man combat you might determine the severity of the hit. I'm still thinking about it

But I think I want a game that doesn't have fixed "you can move this much in the round, and do only this number of 'actions" and try to create an Action Point based system that combines various moves and other actions
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Assault on the ICS Jefferson Davis flykiller Adventurers 34 October 20th, 2016 01:04 PM
ACR vs. Light ACR vs. Assault Rifle endersg T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 4 October 28th, 2005 11:03 AM
Light Assault Gun DrSkull The Lone Star 4 August 15th, 2001 10:05 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010-2013 Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.