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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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  #11  
Old December 26th, 2016, 11:50 AM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
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Terms evolve, and technology is as much at work as domestic politics and/or international diplomacy in terminology.

The Zumwalt destroyer class weighs almost as much as a pre dreadnought battleship, especially considering that torpedo boat destroyers used to be largish patrol boats.

As the larger ships become obsolete and navies start to shrink, there's a size inflation as the category immediately below that gets tasked with those missions.

Frigates were the cruisers of the Age of Enlightenment and Victoria, and were partially defined as having a single gun deck, which with the event of ironclads was the norm. Then further technical developments such as gunhouses and larger cannons spurred on the next development.

After the Great War, where small ocean going escorts were termed frigates specializing in anti-submarine warfare, they evolved to become again the principal cruising vessel of most navies, and becoming larger and more general purpose.

The Littoral Combat Ship was meant to fill in the gap between the frigates and the corvettes, among other unrealizable goals, and having fallen flat on it's face, one option that was grasped is just to evolve that design into a larger ship.

Conclusion: ships gets larger to fulfill more roles as older ships become obsolete, as militaries abhor vacuums.
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  #12  
Old December 26th, 2016, 01:27 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Conclusion: ships gets larger to fulfill more roles as older ships become obsolete, as militaries abhor vacuums.
That is one way of looking at it, another is that as higher tech makes ships more expensive, they become smaller to keep numbers up.



Classifications are just names that vary with time and navy.


Destroyer, ~300 t. Main armament: Torpedoes.


Destroyer, 1800 t. Main Armament: Torpedoes, Guns, AA, Depth Charges.


Destroyer, ~7500 t. Main Armament: Aegis anti-missile.


Destroyer, ~14000 t. Main Armament: Helicopters.

They are all classified as Destroyers by the same navy, yet they vary wildly in size, armament, intended use, and capability. Classification means next to nothing.


When we compare different navies classifications means even less:


Current Corvette, ~1800 t


Current Corvette, ~600 t
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  #13  
Old December 26th, 2016, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDS View Post
various arms treaties in the early 20th century caused ships that qualified as Light Battleships to be labeled Heavy Cruisers.
This reminds me of the excellent iOS app, Atlantic Fleet, which even if you don't pay for it, lets you play several scenarios and make your own. One of the canned scenarios is the Battle of the River Platte.

The Graf Spee can, if you get lucky, sink the Exeter with a single salvo. There's practically no armor on the York class cruisers. Great fun. Heavy cruiser, indeed.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 05:47 PM
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The Germans gamed the Versailles Treaty restrictions, but the Graf Spee was way over all weight restrictions, but still was armour lite; also going obsolete by the time the Great Patriotic War started.

Treaty cruisers are notoriously compromised, with three twin eight inchers about the minimum armament for a heavy cruisers, usually everyone cheated to greater or lesser degrees, even the Germans when they made a naval agreement with the British.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 07:57 PM
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Well, for the Traveller setting, it boils down to:

Big-heavily-armored-ship-that-hits-really-hard

Somewhat-smaller-ship-that-hits-fairly-hard-but-they're-cheaper-so-you-can-have-more-to-cover-more-systems

Ship-that-carries-lots-of-little-boats-to-scout-the-system-and-give-holy-hell-to-enemy-ground-forces

Small-ship-that-flies-picket-for-the-big-ships-to-warn-of-approaching-enemies-and-keep-little-boats-and-small-ships-from-scouting-the-big-ships

Small-cheap-ship-that-goes-scouting-everywhere-to-look-for-the-enemy-and-help-the-big-ships-find-them-and-sometimes-to-chew-up-the-enemy-merchant-fleet

Small-ship-that-protects-your-merchant-fleet-from-those-damn-small-cheap-ships-but-it-has-better-armor-and-guns-than-them-'cause-it-only-needs-to-jump-as-far-as-the-merchants-do

And of course:

Little-boat-to-scout-the-system-and-give-holy-hell-to-enemy-ground-forces

And, then there are the:

Flying-fuel-stations

Flying-supply-warehouses

Flying-army-bases

Flying-hospitals

Now I just need to find a language that can say all that more succinctly.
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  #16  
Old December 26th, 2016, 09:32 PM
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for my setting it boils down to:

primary combatants (two kinds, one mission)
screens (one kind)
sensor gigs (one kind, seldom deployed because they're not survivable)
rider transports (two kinds differing only by construction tech level, one mission)
scouts
and support (one kind, general transport with interchangeable task modules - fleet marine, rescue and recovery, mobile yard, parts and supplies, and fuel)

a grand total of eight classes, only six missions, with one little-used.

so I suppose line, screen, transport, scout, and support would do it.
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  #17  
Old December 27th, 2016, 03:12 AM
warwizard warwizard is offline
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I would add civilian classes pressed into service to provide part of the logistics tail for the fleet, and J-(max available at TL) packets for fleet to fleet coordination. long range scout tenders at deep space points J-1 from systems under scouting watch. (I had a very good Islands campaign scouting service write up from a person in charge of the French colony) In short perhaps 10% of your naval budget is spent on information gathering and transmission/ command and control assets. We are too used to being able to see the 5th frontier map with all the counters on it, Actually seeing where the enemy is located and where it appears to be moving in time to concentrate forces to stop it short of it's target requires a very detailed scouting and communications network.
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Old December 27th, 2016, 03:37 AM
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We can always call them stardestroyers, though apparently they evolved from a two man fighter to a mile long dreadnought.

Under Mongoose Second, I term frontline starwarships as actual capital ships are over a hundred thousand tonnes, major combatants at twenty kay tonnes plus, intermediate ones somewhere between that and five kay.

Below that, it gets more complicated, since not all would be minor combatants.
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Old December 27th, 2016, 04:19 AM
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Using CT 1980 HG2e as the common reference point.

The nature of a fleet and its ships changes a lot as the TL scale advances.

Since it can take centuries to advance through the TL8-16 range the names navies give their ship classes will change also.

Consider this. A TL 7 wold can build m//ag 2 AF7 C2 ships up to 2,999t in size armed with missile bays, lasers and sandcasters.
By TL8 m/ag can now reach 5, AF is 8 everything else remains more or less the same. Would boat classes be renamed during this pre-stellar era?
Advance to TL9 brings m/ag 6, AF 9, smaller power plants, and a maximum hull size of 9,999t thanks to C3. You can even get jump 1 now for a true starship.

Would the names stay the same?
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  #20  
Old December 27th, 2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Consider this. A TL 7 wold can build m//ag 2 AF7 C2 ships up to 2,999t in size armed with missile bays, lasers and sandcasters.
Planetoids?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Would the names stay the same?
I assume starships would get a new classification.
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