Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > MegaTraveller

MegaTraveller Discuss of the MegaTraveller ruleset and the Rebellion Milieu

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 7th, 2018, 12:19 PM
Ahmad Romanov Ahmad Romanov is offline
Citizen: SOC-7
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 25
Gallery : 0
Ahmad Romanov Citizen
Default

Ah thanks for that @aramis, I had completely overlooked the cautious/hasty rules and didn't realize you could change the difficulty like that. So a few more questions then:

10) Can you actually do a simple task cautiously? What would the difficulty become, since simple is the lowest difficulty listed? Also, can you use cautious/hasty with tasks that have fixed time units (like making a ranged attack in combat cautiously or hastily)?

Also, could you tell me why a cautious approach would actually increase the difficulty on a failed determination roll? It makes some sense mechanically... it provides a risk when there might not otherwise be one (for instance, if you had all the time in the world, you would always do every task cautiously if there were no downside). But how do I explain that to a player? Is it just something like "Ok, you decide you will play it safe and take extra time. Oh, you failed your determination roll... ok, despite your best planning, you get frustrated with the lack of progress and make a careless mistake... the task is now one level harder, not easier!" It seems kind of wonky...

I've been thinking about the battle dress being bullet proof... I might just cross out the line in the rulebook that a zero penetration result against fully-enclosed armour results in no effect. That way, EVERYTHING takes 10% of damage if the armour is greater than the penetration. That way, small arms still do zero damage unless they get an exceptional hit (in which case they do about 1 hit). Meanwhile, the concussive force of a hand grenade will always do a point of damage to a trooper in battle dress, or more if an exceptional result is rolled.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 7th, 2018, 12:51 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,709
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
10) Can you actually do a simple task cautiously? What would the difficulty become, since simple is the lowest difficulty listed?
But being cautious you can overcome a raise of difficulty due to some factors (as being unskilled).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
Also, can you use cautious/hasty with tasks that have fixed time units (like making a ranged attack in combat cautiously or hastily)?
There was an example on a Q&A section in a DIgest (IIRC): you spend a full round aiming instead of firing, then, if you pass your determination roll, our attack becomes a level lower (so increasing the possibility to achieve exceptional success, and damaging even someone in Battledress).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
Also, could you tell me why a cautious approach would actually increase the difficulty on a failed determination roll? It makes some sense mechanically... it provides a risk when there might not otherwise be one (for instance, if you had all the time in the world, you would always do every task cautiously if there were no downside). But how do I explain that to a player? Is it just something like "Ok, you decide you will play it safe and take extra time. Oh, you failed your determination roll... ok, despite your best planning, you get frustrated with the lack of progress and make a careless mistake... the task is now one level harder, not easier!" It seems kind of wonky...
Maybe because yo get nervious and angry (after all you failed your determination)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
I've been thinking about the battle dress being bullet proof... I might just cross out the line in the rulebook that a zero penetration result against fully-enclosed armour results in no effect. That way, EVERYTHING takes 10% of damage if the armour is greater than the penetration. That way, small arms still do zero damage unless they get an exceptional hit (in which case they do about 1 hit). Meanwhile, the concussive force of a hand grenade will always do a point of damage to a trooper in battle dress, or more if an exceptional result is rolled.
See that in page 71 it says:

Quote:
Because of the minimums, it is posible for a weaponthat ordinarly has zero penetration to inflict damage points upon achieveing exceptional success
So, even a body pistol (pen 0) can inflict 3 damage points (and so rendering inconscieus most people) on a Battledress aremed person if he rolls 8 over what's needed. At close distance, being a simple task to hit, this would mean 11+. If you carcter has dex 7 and handgun 3, this means rolling a 7+...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 7th, 2018, 12:55 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
Ah thanks for that @aramis, I had completely overlooked the cautious/hasty rules and didn't realize you could change the difficulty like that. So a few more questions then:

10) Can you actually do a simple task cautiously? What would the difficulty become, since simple is the lowest difficulty listed? Also, can you use cautious/hasty with tasks that have fixed time units (like making a ranged attack in combat cautiously or hastily)?

Also, could you tell me why a cautious approach would actually increase the difficulty on a failed determination roll? It makes some sense mechanically... it provides a risk when there might not otherwise be one (for instance, if you had all the time in the world, you would always do every task cautiously if there were no downside). But how do I explain that to a player? Is it just something like "Ok, you decide you will play it safe and take extra time. Oh, you failed your determination roll... ok, despite your best planning, you get frustrated with the lack of progress and make a careless mistake... the task is now one level harder, not easier!" It seems kind of wonky...

I've been thinking about the battle dress being bullet proof... I might just cross out the line in the rulebook that a zero penetration result against fully-enclosed armour results in no effect. That way, EVERYTHING takes 10% of damage if the armour is greater than the penetration. That way, small arms still do zero damage unless they get an exceptional hit (in which case they do about 1 hit). Meanwhile, the concussive force of a hand grenade will always do a point of damage to a trooper in battle dress, or more if an exceptional result is rolled.
I'd say you can do a simple task cautiously. And yes, a failed DET check would be "boredom sets in and you can't focus on it." Personally, I don't bother with the determination check; the first is routine, and most PCs have a +3 or better Det...

Battle Dress isn't fully rigid; the 10% rule applies. (If it were fully rigid, you couldn't walk in it...)
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu dt f+ fs++ ge ih- inf j jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 7th, 2018, 01:57 PM
Ahmad Romanov Ahmad Romanov is offline
Citizen: SOC-7
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 25
Gallery : 0
Ahmad Romanov Citizen
Default

I feel like there may be other sources that you guys are relying on to explain this stuff... which is fine! But I only have the basic rulebook. If that is the case, could you let me know where to find this stuff? I have the errata PDF and I scanned it, but couldn't find these details on a quick flip-through.

For example, the rulebook says that zero penetration has no effect if the character is "fully enclosed in the armor" (not fully rigid). Conversely, "if the target is a character with exposed areas of less than the full armor value," this rule doesn't apply and the target can be harmed by a sufficiently powerful zero penetration hit.

I assume this takes precedence over the clause for exceptional success which mandates a minimum damage. That is, isn't it true that the minimal damage rules only apply if penetration was possible in the first place?

For example, let's say you are attacking a target in battle dress (armour 18) at short range (5 meters) with an assault rifle (penetration 3, damage 3). You need to roll a routine 7+ test and you get an 1+, resulting in a 4+ exceptional hit (quadruple damage or a minimum 2 points). That would deal...

1) 12 damage to a target with armour 1 or lower (3 x 4 = 12), or...
2) 6 damage to a target with armour 2 or 3 (3 x 4 2 = 6), or...
3) 1 damage (3 x 4 10 = 1.2 or 1) to a target with armour 4+, which is then raised to the minimum of 2 damage for a 4+ exceptional hit.

But because the target is fully enclosed in battle dress, the zero penetration result becomes no effect, so damage is not consulted at all. Or am I mistaken?

Also, I'd love to see the FAQ that says you can do a melee action hastily or cautiously... it sounds more like a house rule or errata than a text clarification, since there is no way to figure out the increased time increment... Unless you assume that, since a combat action takes 6 seconds, the time unit is 6/10ths of a second and then you roll 3d6 and multiply it by 0.6 seconds... but how do you figure that into the fixed combat rounds? For example, let's say I roll a 14 and that increases the time to take a cautious shot to 8.4 seconds... would you just round that up and say it takes 2 combat rounds?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 7th, 2018, 02:19 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,709
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
I feel like there may be other sources that you guys are relying on to explain this stuff... which is fine! But I only have the basic rulebook. If that is the case, could you let me know where to find this stuff? I have the errata PDF and I scanned it, but couldn't find these details on a quick flip-through.
Unfortunately, IP problems make DGP products (and so most MT ones) currently unavailable, except if you can find them at ebay or similar places (but prices might be outraging).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
For example, the rulebook says that zero penetration has no effect if the character is "fully enclosed in the armor" (not fully rigid). Conversely, "if the target is a character with exposed areas of less than the full armor value," this rule doesn't apply and the target can be harmed by a sufficiently powerful zero penetration hit.

I assume this takes precedence over the clause for exceptional success which mandates a minimum damage. That is, isn't it true that the minimal damage rules only apply if penetration was possible in the first place?

For example, let's say you are attacking a target in battle dress (armour 18) at short range (5 meters) with an assault rifle (penetration 3, damage 3). You need to roll a routine 7+ test and you get an 1+, resulting in a 4+ exceptional hit (quadruple damage or a minimum 2 points). That would deal...

1) 12 damage to a target with armour 1 or lower (3 x 4 = 12), or...
2) 6 damage to a target with armour 2 or 3 (3 x 4 2 = 6), or...
3) 1 damage (3 x 4 10 = 1.2 or 1) to a target with armour 4+, which is then raised to the minimum of 2 damage for a 4+ exceptional hit.

But because the target is fully enclosed in battle dress, the zero penetration result becomes no effect, so damage is not consulted at all. Or am I mistaken?
As per the part I quoted in my former post (taken from PM), it would do 2 damage points to the target, as the mnimum applies even on zero penetration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post
Also, I'd love to see the FAQ that says you can do a melee action hastily or cautiously... it sounds more like a house rule or errata than a text clarification, since there is no way to figure out the increased time increment... Unless you assume that, since a combat action takes 6 seconds, the time unit is 6/10ths of a second and then you roll 3d6 and multiply it by 0.6 seconds... but how do you figure that into the fixed combat rounds? For example, let's say I roll a 14 and that increases the time to take a cautious shot to 8.4 seconds... would you just round that up and say it takes 2 combat rounds?
The Q&A I quoted was about amied fire (let's say sniper's fire) and talked about spending one round aiming and firing every other one.

See that cautious attempt doubles the time needed before deducting the modifiers. I nthis case, as it takes one combat round and MDs don't affect it, it's logical to asume it takes 2 combat rounds...

In melee it would be more difficult, as being a confrontation task, the round you don't attack could be a probelm...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old March 7th, 2018, 02:56 PM
Ahmad Romanov Ahmad Romanov is offline
Citizen: SOC-7
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 25
Gallery : 0
Ahmad Romanov Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Unfortunately, IP problems make DGP products (and so most MT ones) currently unavailable, except if you can find them at ebay or similar places (but prices might be outraging).
Thanks, but I think I meant just "what titles should I be looking for"? It would be great if this stuff is publicly available, but I am find hunting around eBay for the necessary books if need be!

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
See that cautious attempt doubles the time needed before deducting the modifiers. I nthis case, as it takes one combat round and MDs don't affect it, it's logical to asume it takes 2 combat rounds...
Oh, that's a good point, I missed that. Yeah, if it doubles time and DM's don't apply, I can definitely see how it would take 2 combat rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
In melee it would be more difficult, as being a confrontation task, the round you don't attack could be a probelm...
I would probably say that no confrontation task is necessary for the round you are preparing a cautious attack, as you are basically just feinting and looking for an opening, but I could see it being done differently as well!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old March 7th, 2018, 05:34 PM
kilemall kilemall is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,739
Gallery : 0
kilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizen
Default

Without getting into it very much, my mutant Striker rules deals with a sliding damage level to where a pistol could do 1d6 damage on advanced armor, but it would have to be an extraordinary hit, or a shot to the head- concept being that it might not penetrate, but it can do bruising/concussive/blunt trauma damage.

Things are probably not going to Go Well for the pistol packer afterwards, but maybe it will slow the high tech monster down. A little. Maybe.
__________________
YUMV- Your Universe May Vary.
YOMD- Your Opinion May Differ.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old March 7th, 2018, 05:56 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,709
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Well, that's another problem with Battledress equiped enemies:they rarely come alone. You may KO the first one with an aimed shoot, but then you must face the rest of them. But this is in any version...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old March 7th, 2018, 08:56 PM
jcrocker's Avatar
jcrocker jcrocker is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 831
Gallery : 0
jcrocker Citizen+jcrocker Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Romanov View Post

For example, the rulebook says that zero penetration has no effect if the character is "fully enclosed in the armor" (not fully rigid). Conversely, "if the target is a character with exposed areas of less than the full armor value," this rule doesn't apply and the target can be harmed by a sufficiently powerful zero penetration hit.
This. Ballistic cloth vests are great, but they leave exposed areas.

You may need to test things out and see what you feel needs tweaking.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old March 8th, 2018, 03:18 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

The Zero Pen=zero damage pretty much only applies to vehicles. Anything in the way of body armor isn't "fully enclosed armor" - there are weak points and joints.

Yes, there are sources being used that are no longer available...
the Dean files (Rob Dean's collection of designs)
The DGP books: MT Ref's Screen, Starship Operator's Manual, World Builder's Handbook, Vilani & Vargr, Solomani & Aslan.
The DGP Magazines: Traveller's Digest 1-21, Megatraveller Digest 1-4
10 years of discussion on the Traveller Mailing List.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu dt f+ fs++ ge ih- inf j jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie Questions Thanos Mongoose Traveller 24 December 1st, 2011 09:11 AM
Newbie questions Bill54fish The Lone Star 3 July 31st, 2007 06:48 AM
Newbie, T4 Questions Harshax T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller 7 October 22nd, 2004 03:58 PM
Newbie Questions cerebrolator T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 7 February 6th, 2003 11:55 PM
A few questions for a newbie paxx T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 15 December 29th, 2001 03:20 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.