Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > Imperial Research Station

Imperial Research Station A forum for discussing technology and related topics for use in the Traveller Universe

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 17th, 2011, 12:48 PM
Dragoner Dragoner is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,049
Gallery : 0
Dragoner Citizen-
Default Cryo-Static surgery

For trauma care in particular, imagine a lowberth capsule with waldos for surgery. It would reduce blood loss, and many other hazards of surgery; I can think of some issues, such as opening an incision. Maybe the frozen part could be lifted away, or some localized thawing to work on a specific area.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old December 17th, 2011, 03:00 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,723
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

I saw a programme recently concerning medical advances learned in Afghanistan and US trauma departments.

Apparently deliberately cooling a severe trauma case can actually increase the chances of successful surgery.

So I think your idea has a lot of merit.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 17th, 2011, 03:10 PM
far-trader far-trader is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Regina Subsector aka SK, Canada ;-)
Posts: 13,724
Gallery : 12
Visit far-trader's Blog
far-trader Citizen
Default

Cryoberth surgery perhaps. With the inherent survival risks associated with Cryoberths (aka original CT lowberth survival rates).

Stasisberth (the advanced lowberths with better survival) surgery no, imo. The stasis field would render intrusion into the field impossible.

Something to consider when choosing how to be frozen in that medical emergency perhaps.
__________________
Dan "far-trader" Burns

Original material in this post may be employed for personal non-profit use with the origin noted. Any other use is subject to permission from the author. Contact me through the private message feature of this board.

Fund Rare Bard Rants - Donate your unused rants today!

Musings of an old Trader... (my CotI Travellog) updated - May 3 2012
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old December 17th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Dragoner Dragoner is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,049
Gallery : 0
Dragoner Citizen-
Default

Ah, sorry, I was just thinking lowberth = cryo-stasis.

Hmmm, something to think of rules for and maybe even a diagram...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 17th, 2011, 04:13 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 7,725
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

It seems te me an interesting idea to tink about...

I guess the waldos you talk about would be more or less a high tech version of the robotic surgery used today (e.g. DaVinci robots).

I see the advantages you say, but I'm afraid it would have some problems too, not the least of them would be the possibility of not detecting problems (as bleeding could be) due to the same cryogenics you use.

Another disadvantage would be (IMO) the impossibility (or at least extreme dificulty) to convert what was planned as 'laparoscopic' surgery into open one should worst go to worst.

That does not mean I don't see advantages, but you have already pointed most of them. I have to think more about it...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 17th, 2011, 04:36 PM
Dragoner Dragoner is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,049
Gallery : 0
Dragoner Citizen-
Default

It can explain some of the quick healing times stated in LBB1.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 17th, 2011, 05:44 PM
BytePro BytePro is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,711
Gallery : 0
BytePro Citizen
Default

Like it, Dragoner!

Though I was thinking 'Cryostat' as the base word - the term for an actual device used for a broad range of cryogenic needs in industry and research - even medical treatment (rapid tissue diagnosis during some cancer surgeries, IIRC).

So Cryostatic Surgery sounds like a cool Sci-Fi tech to me!

Stasis fields ala E. Doc Smith shouldn't fit in normal Traveller TLs till one starts talking transporters, disintegraters, time travel and the like as everyday, IMO. (Which means some fool author included it in canon somewhere!)

IMTU, normal lowberths use a two step process that starts with a HIT (Hibernation Inducement Trigger) injection before the chamber is sealed and an initial gaseous stabilized Hydrogen Sulfide protocol begins. Then the second phase kicks in, in which heart rate is lowered, a full blood transfusion commences to replace plasma with a NCR injection (nucleoside-cryo-stabilizer) along with a low-temp liquid perfluorocarbon (PFC) solution replacing the chamber air, all while chamber pressure is intentionally changed in a very controlled way to facilitate inter- and intra- cellular infusion in conjunction with pleural stabilization while core temp is lowered into cryogenic ranges.

E-berth and field medical units replace the HIT with a high adenosine dosage injection to stop the heart while they immediately initiate an accelerated process otherwise identical to the above.

While in cryo-sleep, the body is in stasis - the medical type, referring to cessation of metabolic functions, not the temporal Sci-Fi type.

The body tissue is not 'frozen solid' as the water has been conditioned with anti-freeze properties and the berth is filled with a still liquid solution - though it is at cryogenic temperatures.

Revival follows a reverse process, returning the blood (which has been purified) along with normal gaseous atmosphere at ambient pressure. The final step in automated revival involves a controlled series of adrenaline injections to return the heart to normal fibrillation. Manual injections are quite a bit riskier and require qualified medical personnel.

Note, these units have several doses of useful medical drugs, along with PFC tanks and Hydrogen Sulfide tanks - the later being fun given the 'rotten egg' smell and the fact they are flammable, not to mention poisonous...

I can definitely see surgical techniques being applicable - with the proper equipment, as the berth must remained sealed and thermally stable - in fact, it would be perfect for quite a number of surgeries. Though complications on revival would present increased risks, I would think, since it is pretty dramatic in and of itself, potentially masking symptoms and aggravating post-op conditions...

Very cool! (pun intended!)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 17th, 2011, 06:01 PM
Dragoner Dragoner is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,049
Gallery : 0
Dragoner Citizen-
Default

IIRC stasis and static have similar greek roots, cryo just cold, though I did mean it in more of a medical way than sci-fi. Somebody mentions "stasis" and everyone thinks Haldeman's Forever War, I know I do.

The non-frozen solid part of your berth sounds great (the whole berth does actually) as it would facilitate the ability for surgery easier than frozen solid. Maybe a micro laser cutter-head on a suction tube that can enter a wound and cut a slug into pieces for removal. I have a friend who works for a company that does micro-welding of medical instruments under a electron microscope, crazy stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 17th, 2011, 06:16 PM
far-trader far-trader is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Regina Subsector aka SK, Canada ;-)
Posts: 13,724
Gallery : 12
Visit far-trader's Blog
far-trader Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BytePro View Post
...Stasis fields ala E. Doc Smith shouldn't fit in normal Traveller TLs till one starts talking transporters, disintegraters, time travel and the like as everyday, IMO. (Which means some fool author included it in canon somewhere!)
It's the old Traveller magic grav manipulation to blame here. Traveller stasis fields use grav control to slow/stop motion at a molecular level with exacting precision...

...yeah, well, somebody got it into canon

I don't recall the exact TL. Maybe 12-13? It was a MegaTraveller article iirc.
__________________
Dan "far-trader" Burns

Original material in this post may be employed for personal non-profit use with the origin noted. Any other use is subject to permission from the author. Contact me through the private message feature of this board.

Fund Rare Bard Rants - Donate your unused rants today!

Musings of an old Trader... (my CotI Travellog) updated - May 3 2012
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Surgery on the 6th JAFARR Random Static 8 July 7th, 2010 12:41 AM
Nanotech + Plastic Surgery TL's Tellon Imperial Research Station 0 December 4th, 2009 08:28 PM
Surgery Feat? RickA T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 24 September 26th, 2005 02:28 AM
Medical Question: Surgery jayouzts T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 3 February 23rd, 2003 01:42 PM
random static trader jim Citizens' Information Centre 3 February 9th, 2003 01:01 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.