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Pre-Release Discussion Archive of the pre-release T5 Public

 
 
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  #11  
Old February 19th, 2007, 04:54 AM
Liam Devlin Liam Devlin is offline
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T5?

No comment.
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  #12  
Old February 19th, 2007, 10:37 AM
The Shaman
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
If people want it to be a great game for the current generation, then the game surely needs to adapt to fit the mores of the current generation. . .
A wise man once said, "There are two fools in the world. The first fool says, 'This is old, therefore it is good.' The second fool says, 'This is new, therefore it is better.'"
Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Serenity/Firefly shows that something similar to Traveller could appeal to the 20-30 age market today.
Firefly and Serenity were bombs. The series was cancelled, and the movie tanked.

It pains me to say that, because I enjoyed them both very much, but I don't think one can really point to Josh Whedon's franchise as a success story to be emulated.
  #13  
Old February 19th, 2007, 11:01 AM
Malenfant
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Well if one considers Firefly and Serenity to be "bombs", then that just proves the point even more - they're the most Traveller-like things on TV... and supposedly they tanked (I won't believe it myself without more data - how are DVD sales?). So that would indicate that Traveller-like settings aren't viable today.
  #14  
Old February 19th, 2007, 11:42 AM
far-trader far-trader is offline
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Rant mode engaged...

Well the series was cancelled because the corporate types are idiots. They let Joss do it because he was (is) a bankable commodity and figured even if he put out a show about foot fungus his name would guarantee profits and a loyal following. Then of course they looked at the pilot, didn't understand it at all, and said "Do you have any chase scenes?" He showed them a later episode with a classic chase scene and they said "Excellent, we'll air that one first!" Never mind that it would make no sense story wise. Then I think they made the next classic move of playing "find the new series" as they time and day shifted it all over. Nothing kills a new show quicker than "I missed an episode because they moved it."

Despite this the show did gain a significant and loyal audience. And just as it was finding it's market... BLAM! Killed dead by the same executives who asked for it. No real reason as far as I know. Some mumblings about poor market share (while worse stuff with poorer shares is still on, and even utter crap is left on because it does have numbers).

As for the movie, blame the Browncoats to some extent. They hyped the hell out of it and turned it into a geek-fest that no self respecting youth could go see without being labled a geek. If they'd just let the movie be made and released with the normal promotions I think it would have had a much wider audience appeal and could well have ressurected the story.

...disengage rant mode.

But then I get the feeling from the movie that Joss was saying goodbye to his story with it and I don't anticipate anymore on it from him.

I think Mal's point is that the show did indeed find a youth market though, despite the best attempts of the suits to kill it, proving that there is a chance for science fiction to appeal to a younger generation. I'm not sure that means the same market is going to embrace an RPG though. A closer comparison for that would probably be console games, and that has it's own comparison issues (solo play, FPS, anonymity in group play, etc.) that make it tricky to apply what works to sell an RPG.
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  #15  
Old February 19th, 2007, 12:03 PM
The Shaman
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Well if one considers Firefly and Serenity to be "bombs", then that just proves the point even more - they're the most Traveller-like things on TV... and supposedly they tanked.
With respect to the movie, would you believe Joss Whedon himself?
Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
(I won't believe it myself without more data - how are DVD sales?)
I read that Serenity DVD sales may have recovered the advertising budget, meaning that the film either lost a bit of money or barely broke even.

I've not read anything about Firefly DVD sales.
Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
So that would indicate that Traveller-like settings aren't viable today.
Ouch, trying take in the sweep of that generalization nearly gave me whiplash! (Denying the antecedent tends to do that to me.)

Aliens and Cowboy Bebop were both very successful by their respective industry standards, and both have a Traveller vibe as well - if I follow your logic, I conclude that Traveller is a viable setting.

You're drawing an invalid inference here. Part of the audience for the movies and series is also a part of the audience that enjoys roleplaying games. However, a large portion of each audience has no overlap whatsoever, and there is also a portion of the audience that overlaps that still doesn't want to play a roleplaying game based on a movie they like. (For example, I enjoyed The Lord of the Rings trilogy and I like roleplaying games, but I have no desire to play a LotR RPG.)
  #16  
Old February 19th, 2007, 12:22 PM
The Shaman
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Quote:
Originally posted by far-trader:
I think Mal's point is that the show did indeed find a youth market though, despite the best attempts of the suits to kill it, proving that there is a chance for science fiction to appeal to a younger generation. I'm not sure that means the same market is going to embrace an RPG though.
I run across this idea from time to time, that the popularity of genre fiction (i.e., sci-fi, fantasy) is somehow integral to the popularity of roleplaying games, and from the bits of gaming's cottage-industry talk I've read over the years, that simply isn't the case.

Nineteen-eighty-three is in the rearview mirror for RPGs and it isn't coming back, no matter how big a movie or movie franchise may be.
  #17  
Old February 19th, 2007, 12:26 PM
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kafka47 kafka47 is offline
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Quote:
You're drawing an invalid inference here. Part of the audience for the movies and series is also a part of the audience that enjoys roleplaying games. However, a large portion of each audience has no overlap whatsoever, and there is also a portion of the audience that overlaps that still doesn't want to play a roleplaying game based on a movie they like. (For example, I enjoyed The Lord of the Rings trilogy and I like roleplaying games, but I have no desire to play a LotR RPG.)
This is only partially true. Ever try explaining an Elf to someone who has not seen LOTR? The audience is often shared between RPGs and popular films/TV shows/books, as it forms part of the shared universe of assumptions that the RPG fan is trying to convey. Learning what constitutes the appeal factor of those can go along way in making a good game.
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  #18  
Old February 19th, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
This is only partially true. Ever try explaining an Elf to someone who has not seen LOTR?
Sure - they're little fellas with pointy ears who make cookies.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point here.
Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
The audience is often shared between RPGs and popular films/TV shows/books, as it forms part of the shared universe of assumptions that the RPG fan is trying to convey.
Yes, but not with the sort of one-to-one correspondence that was applied upthread: "That movie was unpopular. This game is like that movie. Therefore the game will be unpopular." That's a logical fallacy called "denying the antecedent" that's readily disproved.

In any case, what I think is a mistake is pointing at something in popular fiction, whether it's a book or a movie or a television series, and saying that if it succeeds or fails, then the same will be true of a roleplaying game that is similar to or even licensed from that book, film, or series. The Star Wars movie franchise is the most commercially successful in the history of cinema, but the SWRPG was never the most popular roleplaying game by a long shot, in either its d6 or d20 incarnations - conversely the Dungeons and Dragons movie flopped mightily, and D&D is still the RPG leader by a healthy margin.

Both appeal to a subset of their respective audiences, but one can't look at either the game or the movie and draw an accurate inference about its place in the other medium.
  #19  
Old February 19th, 2007, 12:52 PM
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What kafka said. There is something like a "core experience" contained in Traveller that you can find popping up in contemporary scifi material.

I haven't seen either Firefly or Serenity, but I'm thinking of the Freelancer CRPG (boring shooter, but with great Travelleresque visuals and even greater potential), and those novels by Richard Hamilton (not for the plot so much as for the set-up--a bunch of people in a tiny free trader hopping from system to system trying to beat the odds).

I'm sure there's tons more.
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  #20  
Old February 19th, 2007, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rhialto the Marvelous:
There is something like a "core experience" contained in Traveller that you can find popping up in contemporary scifi material.
Sure. Jack McDevitt's novels and Elizabeth Moon's Vatta's War books have a Traveller vibe about them, and I'm told that David Weber's Honor Harrington books are this way as well.

Of course that was true twenty-five or thirty years ago too, when we could point to H. Beam Piper's Space Viking and Frank Herbert's Dune and C.J. Cherryh's Merchanter's Luck as being "like Traveller." Many of the motifs in the game were popular then, and continue to be popular today.

Are there any White Wolf fans on the board? I know next to nothing about the World of Darkness, but I'm wondering about the relationship between fans of Vampire and fans of Anne Rice's novels. I'm guessing that many who played the game were fans of her novels, but did being a fan of the novels or the movies predispose someone to trying the game?
 

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