Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Mongoose Traveller

Mongoose Traveller Discussion forums for the Traveller rules from Mongoose Publishing.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 12:44 AM
shankfisher's Avatar
shankfisher shankfisher is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 47
Gallery : 0
shankfisher Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnDriscoll View Post
]If you're trying to use Mongoose Traveller as a simulator... don't do that. Stick to something like GURPS, if that is already working for you (unless destroying a car by punching on it is not very realistic either).
I don't expect a simulation, I expect verisimilitude. That is, I expect the rules to meet at least vaguely my expectations I gather from the rules. An Air Superiority Fighter that's made of egg shells, or an air/raft that's destroyed by a low-tech barbarian with a sword just breaks the game. YMMV.


Quote:
Tons? Then maybe someone has made a house rule that takes care of the issue. Hopefully it's realistic as well.
I don't pay the high price of Mongoose books to be told "go figure it out yourself." It's basically either an epic level of incompetence, or theft.
__________________
CE ru-- ge++ !3i c- au+ ls- pi++ f+ cpu+
Gunnery Sergeant, Imperial Marines (T:GF p. 46)
Author: GURPS WWII Dogfaces and Hand of Steel.
Co-Author: GURPS High-Tech.
Lead Playtester: GURPS Traveller Starships and GURPS WWII.
Additional Material Credit: GURPS WWII, GURPS Traveller Starports and Ground Forces.
Playtester: GURPS Mass Combat, GURPS Spaceships,GURPS Space, GURPS Vehicles.

Last edited by shankfisher; June 3rd, 2018 at 12:52 AM.. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:06 AM
infojunky's Avatar
infojunky infojunky is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF Bay Metroplex
Posts: 968
Gallery : 0
infojunky Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher View Post
There's lots of good in MgT, but the vehicles are not one of those things.
The issue is every time they touch a technical issue it changes. Vehicles is just the worst extreme of the situation.
__________________
Evyn
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:09 AM
ShawnDriscoll's Avatar
ShawnDriscoll ShawnDriscoll is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 796
Gallery : 0
ShawnDriscoll Citizen+ShawnDriscoll Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher View Post
I don't expect a simulation, I expect verisimilitude. That is, I expect the rules to meet at least vaguely my expectations I gather from the rules. An Air Superiority Fighter that's made of egg shells, or an air/raft that's destroyed by a low-tech barbarian with a sword just breaks the game. YMMV.
I figured you were thinking of another sword. Yes, that probably wouldn't look right in your verisimilitude.
__________________
My GitHub
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:26 AM
shankfisher's Avatar
shankfisher shankfisher is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 47
Gallery : 0
shankfisher Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnDriscoll View Post
Yes, that probably wouldn't look right in your verisimilitude.
It doesn't work for me or a lot of other people -- but then, I'm just reading the rules and expecting them to work. Judging by your comments here, that's expecting too much. Mongoose has tried at least three attempts to get it right and failed every single time. But hey, maybe I'll go play another game...
__________________
CE ru-- ge++ !3i c- au+ ls- pi++ f+ cpu+
Gunnery Sergeant, Imperial Marines (T:GF p. 46)
Author: GURPS WWII Dogfaces and Hand of Steel.
Co-Author: GURPS High-Tech.
Lead Playtester: GURPS Traveller Starships and GURPS WWII.
Additional Material Credit: GURPS WWII, GURPS Traveller Starports and Ground Forces.
Playtester: GURPS Mass Combat, GURPS Spaceships,GURPS Space, GURPS Vehicles.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:30 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is online now
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 834
Gallery : 0
Brandon C Citizen+Brandon C Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher View Post
I don't expect a simulation, I expect verisimilitude. That is, I expect the rules to meet at least vaguely my expectations I gather from the rules. An Air Superiority Fighter that's made of egg shells, or an air/raft that's destroyed by a low-tech barbarian with a sword just breaks the game. YMMV.
My initial reaction is just to multiply hull and structure by ten. This doesn't quite fix the problem but it does reduce it, but I need to see what follow-on effects there are. Another fundamental problem going back to CT is that melee weapons do too much damage (to non-living objects).

I remember years ago when I realized how you destroyed a vehicle in GURPS: you didn't reduce hp to zero, you penetrated the armor with an incendiary or high explosive round, hoped that started an interior fire, and that fire caused the vehicle's fuel or ammo to explode. At that point, vehicle hp were pretty irrelevant.
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

My website: http://copeab.tripod.com
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:31 AM
shankfisher's Avatar
shankfisher shankfisher is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 47
Gallery : 0
shankfisher Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infojunky View Post
The issue is every time they touch a technical issue it changes. Vehicles is just the worst extreme of the situation.
Well, if certain people in this thread prove to be the fan base, you can see why the quality is what it is. I wonder do they actually play the game? Do they listen to playtesters? Pity.
__________________
CE ru-- ge++ !3i c- au+ ls- pi++ f+ cpu+
Gunnery Sergeant, Imperial Marines (T:GF p. 46)
Author: GURPS WWII Dogfaces and Hand of Steel.
Co-Author: GURPS High-Tech.
Lead Playtester: GURPS Traveller Starships and GURPS WWII.
Additional Material Credit: GURPS WWII, GURPS Traveller Starports and Ground Forces.
Playtester: GURPS Mass Combat, GURPS Spaceships,GURPS Space, GURPS Vehicles.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:37 AM
shankfisher's Avatar
shankfisher shankfisher is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 47
Gallery : 0
shankfisher Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon C View Post
My initial reaction is just to multiply hull and structure by ten. This doesn't quite fix the problem but it does reduce it, but I need to see what follow-on effects there are. Another fundamental problem going back to CT is that melee weapons do too much damage (to non-living objects).
Since the weapons aren't dealing out a reasonable spread of damage you'll have problems with the weapon damages making sense with the higher HPs, I imagine. Nothing is properly scaled.

Quote:
I remember years ago when I realized how you destroyed a vehicle in GURPS: you didn't reduce hp to zero, you penetrated the armor with an incendiary or high explosive round, hoped that started an interior fire, and that fire caused the vehicle's fuel or ammo to explode. At that point, vehicle hp were pretty irrelevant
And that makes a certain amount of sense, too. It's believable. Some of the 4e stuff, like machineguns killing battleships, is really wonky. The fixes are pretty solid though -- mostly returning to the more proven 3e rules. Honestly, Mongoose makes GURPS look like the gold standard for vehicles rules. But you probably already realized that!
__________________
CE ru-- ge++ !3i c- au+ ls- pi++ f+ cpu+
Gunnery Sergeant, Imperial Marines (T:GF p. 46)
Author: GURPS WWII Dogfaces and Hand of Steel.
Co-Author: GURPS High-Tech.
Lead Playtester: GURPS Traveller Starships and GURPS WWII.
Additional Material Credit: GURPS WWII, GURPS Traveller Starports and Ground Forces.
Playtester: GURPS Mass Combat, GURPS Spaceships,GURPS Space, GURPS Vehicles.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 02:45 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is online now
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 834
Gallery : 0
Brandon C Citizen+Brandon C Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher View Post
Since the weapons aren't dealing out a reasonable spread of damage you'll have problems with the weapon damages making sense with the higher HPs, I imagine. Nothing is properly scaled.
Yeah, although this can be traced back to CT as well.

Quote:
And that makes a certain amount of sense, too. It's believable. Some of the 4e stuff, like machineguns killing battleships, is really wonky. The fixes are pretty solid though -- mostly returning to the more proven 3e rules. Honestly, Mongoose makes GURPS look like the gold standard for vehicles rules. But you probably already realized that!
As I look though fixes for MgT, it starts looking a lot like GT, which makes me wonder why I'm not just using GT. So, I'm trying to find minimal changes.
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

My website: http://copeab.tripod.com
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 07:19 AM
infojunky's Avatar
infojunky infojunky is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF Bay Metroplex
Posts: 968
Gallery : 0
infojunky Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankfisher View Post
Well, if certain people in this thread prove to be the fan base, you can see why the quality is what it is. I wonder do they actually play the game? Do they listen to playtesters? Pity.
Actually you hit on the one of the issues, how the game Plays. But I digress.

I loved what MgT does with character creation it was one of the most brilliant bits done for Traveller in a long time, couple that with the fact that most of MgT1st is largely transparent to CT and visa-versa made for a great foundation.

The buildy bits on the other hand are a bit problematic. The biggest issue with ships was the absolute silence on how to treat a bunch of aspects of both Ship combat and design. Now in that case we had CT to fill in solutions in places that where problematic.

Now on to vehicles, it took them two tries to get a workable system for MgT1sted. But for the most part that system worked and was consistent with itself.

On a slightly broader view at Mongoose publishing history with one technical issues, every tech book they released has had a different base than the ones previous. Which leads to the mass of confusion of what anything specifically does. So it becomes a choice of what the specifications of your game are over what is actually published.
__________________
Evyn
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old June 3rd, 2018, 10:50 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,425
Gallery : 0
kilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizen
Default

Hmm, just doing a mental exercise with CT Striker, the rules don't say you can attack an air/raft with a broadsword, so you'd be in place to say its not possible at all. If you adjust the melee penetration by -4, the anti-personnel tables align and you could conceivably say that applies to vehicle damage.

At that point, broadswords do damage like a rifle and can be damaging external sensors, tires etc. At armor factor 7 they can't do damage at all. So it's still a bit squirelly, but it was handled before.

Old school CT didn't really deal with this sort of question at all, as the vehicles didn't have an armor factor OR subsystem damage.

As to broadswords vs. rifles, probably not far off re: nasty damage- different kinds of wounds, but bad enough.

If I were retrofitting for MgT, probably have tiered types of armor-

  • melee
  • gun
  • vehicle
  • starship
Going up each level, take 3D off. So a rifle firing on a vehicle takes 3D off, and a melee weapon attacking a vehicle takes 6D off.
__________________
YUMV- Your Universe May Vary.
YOMD- Your Opinion May Differ.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MgT2E Anti Vehicle Damage rgrove0172 2300AD & 2320 14 June 13th, 2018 01:04 PM
Rules Only: Weapon damage changes? BlindGuy Classic Traveller 32 March 24th, 2018 05:53 PM
TNE melee weapon damage. Tupper Traveller: The New Era 2 October 27th, 2014 02:44 AM
Weapon Damage cmdrx T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 8 October 9th, 2002 04:57 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.