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  #21  
Old March 16th, 2008, 12:53 AM
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I just convert everything to Savage Worlds...
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  #22  
Old March 16th, 2008, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by far-trader View Post
Interesting. Not at all the vibe I get from the few d20 boards I lurk on. What I've seen is they like d20 fine and are only annoyed by what they see as yet another edition/money grab by WotC in 4th Ed. The talk I hear is they intend to stick with their 3.0 and 3.5, pick up material they're missing cheap as it's discounted when 4th Ed is released, and never buy WotC product again.
That would be me, except I will buy 4E so that I might rant about its suckiness from an informed position.

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Of course all this is only very peripherally related to Mongoose Traveller
There is a relation, in the sense that Hunter's next scifi project, which will be d20ish if I get this right, might cater to what by that time would be the 3.x grognard market.

OK, it's a stretch.
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  #23  
Old March 16th, 2008, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by far-trader View Post
Of course all this is only very peripherally related to Mongoose Traveller
I agree. Other then saying MGT does have a future without being d20, the whole d20 angle is OT for the forum.

Daniel
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  #24  
Old March 16th, 2008, 09:42 PM
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I think I'm just going to get any sector books that come out. Even the Spinward Marches one.

Mike
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  #25  
Old March 16th, 2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Qstor2 View Post
I think I'm just going to get any sector books that come out. Especially the Spinward Marches one.
There, fixed... hehehe

I will do as I have done for every other version of Traveller whose core rules I don't use... buy the supplement/source books.

I think it's an illness, but I can't be bothered to get therapy for it.
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  #26  
Old March 17th, 2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chshrkt View Post
I think it's an illness, but I can't be bothered to get therapy for it.

...and it is cheaper than smoking, drinking or therapy.
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  #27  
Old March 17th, 2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Bill: Dead wrong on both the OS War and the system mechanics war. Both exist in dynamic markets.

Aramis,

Go to your FLGS and count how many computer games are MS based and how many paper & pencil RPG games are d20 based. Then count how many of the same are based on other systems. What kind of numbers did you get?

Yeah, there's some churn in the shallow end. The vast majority of either game are MS and/or d20 based. As far as the general public is concerned, they've won. There always will be a few cognoscenti using other systems, but the general public will either use MS & d20 or systems derived from MS & d20 because those are the systems they are familiar with.

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Microsoft continues to lose market share...
Home computing is going to become a utility in the next decade, like electricity. The general public are tired of having to buy a new system every 18 months, tired of trying to install new programs, tired of keeping up the latest virus protection needs, tired of it all. It's going to be "outsourced". They'll have a RAM box, a monitor, and keyboard, and a "fat pipe" connected to some near-super computer their ISP owns, protects, upgrades, and maintains.

A few of us will still own personal computers - not PCs mind you, personal computers - but the great majority are going to shift to the 21st Century version of mainframe-work station because it's less bother.

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... unlike querty. Why? Because, unlike querty, MS Win is not that different than any other window-based operating system.
You set the hurdle as low as you want. People are going to use what is familiar to them, familiar means what they use at work, and that means MS. When the shift to utility-style home computing kicks off, ISPs are going to keep the end user's experience "MS-like" no matter what their techs are using.

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The techs need to retrain extensively to make the switch, but the end user doesn't, and if the result is a better experience... and the hardware penalty is gone... it will happen.
The end result of changing from MS to Apple has been a better experience for over twenty years and Apple's share is still pathetic.

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With keyboards, it takes extensive retraining to make the switch...
Retraining? Hardly, maybe 2 in 100 people using a keyboard either speed type or type wihtout looking at the keys. We're not all secretarial school grads and we don't center over the home row before typing away. I took typing my senior year in HS over 30 years ago just to fill my schedule and I never used all that I learned.

People use QWERTY for no other reason than it is what is familiar. You can download a free apps all over the 'net to change you keyboard, you can even do it "inside" your machine, and not 1 in 100,000 even bothers.

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...and the few who need the extra speed of, say, dvorak,...
Speed has been a mismeasure ever since mechanical keys were replaced by a type ball and dvorak's claims for speed rest on all of one study done by the US Dept. of the Navy during WW2. That study was conducted by someone called Lt. Dvorak by the way.

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Looking at the previews of D&D4, D20 is likely to fade out. What powers the big bad boy is likely to be seen as useful. But that doesn't mean it will remain D20.
That's like saying Vista isn't really XP, XP wasn't really W2000, W2000 wasn't really W98, etc. etc. etc. Windows is Windows and d20 is d20, the basic ideas remain the same.

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Likewise, there are new designs coming out every year, and no matter your personal opinion, system maters to a great many, and being in stores matters, too. Many do not convert materials.
Systems matter to folks like you and me, but we're not your average RPG gamers. The average player is young, in school, and is playing some WOTC product.

Being in stores matters more than anything else and just which product is your FLGS going to stock? Something from a small publisher or something from Hasbro?

All I'm pointing out is that economics are going to make the decision here. Our opinions about the RTT RPG system are of no consequence. It will most likely find a minor niche, most people playing Traveller will not switch to it, and most will simply plunder the setting materials for their own RPG systems.


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. Folks might find The Economist's obituary for Gary Gygax interesting. It's here [url=http://www.economist.com/obituary/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10838120&CFID=8931968&CF TOKEN=fcea96a7dab7a9a-BE4C2423-B27C-BB00-01433D9D2F51C4D6] Check out the first paragraph under "Triumph of the Nerds" and read his opinion of WOTC and the d20 style of gaming.
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  #28  
Old March 17th, 2008, 04:42 PM
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Well, it seems to depend on where you live. If I go to my favourite RPG shop
(or any other RPG shop I know over here), the vast majority of the games is
not d20. In fact, D&D usually is the only d20 game in stock there, all other
games use other systems.
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  #29  
Old March 17th, 2008, 04:51 PM
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The d20 vs [everything else] debate is like debating the importance of the sliderule vs the mechanical adding machine in a world dominated by electronic calculators.

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Computer games are part of mainstream culture; “World of Warcraft”, an internet-based D&D clone, boasts 10m subscribers.
This quote from the article referenced at the end of Whipsnade's post [above] shows where pencil and paper RPGs have really gone. We non-electronic RPGers will soon qualify for the SCA.
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  #30  
Old March 17th, 2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rust View Post
Well, it seems to depend on where you live. If I go to my favourite RPG shop
(or any other RPG shop I know over here), the vast majority of the games is
not d20. In fact, D&D usually is the only d20 game in stock there, all other
games use other systems.
Look HERE

There are 4743 items for the d20/OGL 3rd Ed Game System.
There are 154 items for all versions of Traveller.

... and Traveller did better than a lot of other game systems.
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