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Classic Traveller Discussion on the granddaddy of them all, Classic Traveller!

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  #11  
Old December 24th, 2018, 05:04 AM
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Magic Traveller technology to the rescue.

Fuel scoops include gravitic fields to rapidly compress the gas (gravitic technology is so versatile and useful in Traveller it is not even worth handwaving how it works, it just does).

Gravitic heat sinks, the same ones that stop the multi GW fusion reactor melting the ship, allow you to cool the gas to its condensation point. A fuel purifier is an add on that separates stuff out as Straybow suggests.

Physically possible? Hell no, but perfectly doable with TL9+ Traveller technology.
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  #12  
Old December 24th, 2018, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
I'm curious about the process of skimming fuel at a gas giant. I know the ship must be fitted with fuel scoops and a fuel purifier, and basically, the ship is piloted deep into the atmosphere, with the scoops open, scooping in hydrogen.

How long does it take? I think I recall some scoop times in one of the supplements or adventures (maybe Trillion Credit Squadron? Or maybe Leviathan?).
From MT:SOM, page 65:

Quote:
WILDERNESS REFUELLING

Gas Giants


To skim a gas giant atmosphere for starship fuel:
Routine, Pilot, Nagivation, 1 hour (hazardous)
(bold original)

As the time increment (1 hour in this case) is multiplied by 3d6-skill level, that would five you an average of 11 - skill levels hours (hasty or cautious attempst may vary this).

This is consisntent with the average 8 hours ITTR I've read somewhere else (I cannot remember where).

To adapt it to CT, you could use (as an example) 10 - Pilot skill + 2d6 -7 (or flux roll, as the probablities for results are the same).

See that this is to fill the ship's tanks. So, if you're using fuel shuttles, each such round trips will give you one shuttle load of fuel.

I hope that serves you

Note: Yes, I know this is MT, but I always considered it as a kind og "advanced Traveller", and in most aspects (that is, except craft design) I use the rules as more or less intechangeable, and when something is not clear in one versión but it is in the other (as this is the case), I use it for both. Of course, YMMV
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Last edited by McPerth; June 18th, 2019 at 11:50 PM.. Reason: typos
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  #13  
Old December 24th, 2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Note: Yes, I know this is MT, but I always considered it as a kind og "advanced Traveller", and in most aspects (that is, except craft design) I use the rules as more or less intechangeable, and when something is not clear in one versión but it is in the other (as this is the case), I use it for both. Of course, YMMV
Thanks. But, yes, I did know about this. I've used it in MT games and CT games, too. I was just curious about pure CT references.

But, thanks for the effort, though!
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Old December 24th, 2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Magic Traveller technology to the rescue.

Fuel scoops include gravitic fields to rapidly compress the gas (gravitic technology is so versatile and useful in Traveller it is not even worth handwaving how it works, it just does).

Gravitic heat sinks, the same ones that stop the multi GW fusion reactor melting the ship, allow you to cool the gas to its condensation point. A fuel purifier is an add on that separates stuff out as Straybow suggests.

I find that you and I agree about 85% of the time, Sigg, and the above definitely falls within that 85%.

Good comment.



RE: Fuel Purifiers. Book 2 designs. We just assume a ship has them? Or, that a ship has them if the ship has fuel scoops?

With Book 5 designs, the purifiers have to be purchased (or...that was dropped from HG2)?
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Old December 24th, 2018, 11:26 AM
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LBB2 really annoys me sometimes.

It differentiates between military and civilian drives in the way they handle unrefined fuel, but other than referee fiat (which I am all in favour of) there is no cost, tonnage or handwavium difference in the design sequence between 'military and paramilitary' drives and civilian drives.

All it would have taken is a cost increase...

LBB5 invented the idea of a separate purification plant for the fuel, which is different to the rugged military drive paradigm of LBB2
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Old December 24th, 2018, 01:29 PM
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No double dipping allowed, unless it's family.

No need to dive. Just set an orbit at the elevation offering a good density and float around the planet core.

Of course, hydrogen is not the lightest element, which the computers would account for.

Also, imagine the speed of the craft allowing large amounts of vapor in. Face the craft into the current, needing a higher orbital speed to overcome resistance.

"Yeah, there's denser atmosphere down there, but here we're good"

Hmmm. I'm invisioning something like the Paradoxal sub-orbital commercial airliner.

Last edited by Axe; December 24th, 2018 at 03:13 PM..
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Old December 24th, 2018, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
LBB2 really annoys me sometimes.

It differentiates between military and civilian drives in the way they handle unrefined fuel, but other than referee fiat (which I am all in favour of) there is no cost, tonnage or handwavium difference in the design sequence between 'military and paramilitary' drives and civilian drives.

All it would have taken is a cost increase...

LBB5 invented the idea of a separate purification plant for the fuel, which is different to the rugged military drive paradigm of LBB2

It does come with the streamlining option, though.

In the original '77 LBB2 rules there isn't any difference between military or civilian drives using what they call "contaminated" fuel, further defined as unrefined. It just has a blanket rule that drives using that have an increased chance of misjump and failure, and they need to be flushed or cleaned before using refined fuel again to remove the penalty.

That edition also included a small power plant in the tonnage and price of a Jump Drive, too, so it has lots of forgotten bits in it. That was how the original Jumpboat worked.


Yeah - both editions of HG have onboard plants for the fuel, just different ways of calculating the cost and volumes.
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Old December 24th, 2018, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Magic Traveller technology to the rescue.

Fuel scoops include gravitic fields to rapidly compress the gas (gravitic technology is so versatile and useful in Traveller it is not even worth handwaving how it works, it just does).

Gravitic heat sinks, the same ones that stop the multi GW fusion reactor melting the ship, allow you to cool the gas to its condensation point. A fuel purifier is an add on that separates stuff out as Straybow suggests.

Physically possible? Hell no, but perfectly doable with TL9+ Traveller technology.
That's genius!
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Old December 24th, 2018, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemall View Post

Interesting point I had not seen before on reviewing LBB5- small craft do not require fuel purification. That would seem to be in line with the CT rules on unrefined fuel risking misjumps.
It was that way in LBB2, also. It must be that small craft use two-stroke fusion plants.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
And that there was a tradeoff between having a streamlined/semi-streamlined fleet that could go through and fuel itself vs. a small craft/specialized tanker setup.
AHL gives a lot of detail on how it all works. The class carried refueling shuttles to skim in addition to, or instead of the cruiser doing it. All the times and procedures anyone could want for frontier refueling are in that sourcebook.


Somewhere, in some book )maybe the Traveller Adventure??) they have info on what it takes to frontier fuel by shoveling ice into the tanks.
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  #20  
Old December 24th, 2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
In the original '77 LBB2 rules there isn't any difference between military or civilian drives using what they call "contaminated" fuel, further defined as unrefined. It just has a blanket rule that drives using that have an increased chance of misjump and failure, and they need to be flushed or cleaned before using refined fuel again to remove the penalty.
There is a difference; in the misjump section on page 4 the chance of a misjump is 12+ with the following DMs:
+5 if within 100D
+3 if using unrefined fuel (except military and scout ships)
-1 if using refined fuel
+2 if operating beyond annual maintainance

Quote:
That edition also included a small power plant in the tonnage and price of a Jump Drive, too, so it has lots of forgotten bits in it. That was how the original Jumpboat worked.
Not quite, the rules are a little fuzzy on if you need all three drives. You definitely need a power plant for your maneuver drive, but it doesn't explicitly state like it does in future editions that you need a power plant at least equal to the jump drive - this is how the x-boat began.
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