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  #1  
Old October 29th, 2016, 04:54 PM
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Default Book 5 discounted starship cost

I'm assuming that when you calculate the discounted cost of a starship by multiplying the construction cost by 80% that you include any carried craft at their full discounted cost and ship's vehicles without any cost reduction.

I'm having no luck figuring out the Kinunir example on page 18 of the Consolidated Errata. The discounted cost given is some wacky number!
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by agorski View Post
I'm having no luck figuring out the Kinunir example on page 18 of the Consolidated Errata. The discounted cost given is some wacky number!
To me, it looks like MCr 1201.8619⁄1335.4021 represents a 10% discount rather than a 20% discount.
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 05:52 AM
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I would assume discounted small craft are not discounted again.

See TCS, p8.

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3. All vehicles carried on, or assigned to, ships within the squadron. Big and small craft which have their own High Guard statistics and which are assigned t o the squadron should be accounted for separately.
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 06:18 AM
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I get fairly close to the errata. The discounted cost on p15 of the errata is obviously wrong, it is presumably 90% of the full cost (including already discounted small craft and vehicles). The same 90% is used for the Kinunir's pinnace: MCr 21 90% = MCr 18.9.



Note that the errata misses the cost of hangars for small craft: 52 Dt kCr 2 = kCr 104 = MCr 0.104.

(I would not normally include the cost of the jump capsules in the ship, I would consider them consumables, like missiles.)

Last edited by AnotherDilbert; February 3rd, 2020 at 06:33 AM..
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Old February 6th, 2020, 11:33 AM
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A "feature" of both MegaTraveller and TNE ships were that they were not only not reproducible but that no two people would get the same numbers.
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Old February 6th, 2020, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
A "feature" of both MegaTraveller and TNE ships were that they were not only not reproducible but that no two people would get the same numbers.
When I studied Computer Science (and people still used Punch Cards and Fortran IV), they taught us that all coding will always have at least 1 error per 4000 lines of coding. As you attempt to correct errors beyond that threshold, your corrections will introduce new errors and maintain the empirical limit of 'perfection'.

I think some of the Traveller design sequences have exceeded the level of complexity that permits them to be error free and the errata is simply proving that empirical threshold.

Heck, even the LBB2 design system has progression anomalies in the charts and a "scout" ship that cannot theoretically exist (It must be EXACTLY 100 dTons ... 99 dTons and it cannot jump; 101 dtons and it is only J1 ... so what happens when you remove the turret or upgrade to a triple turret?)
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Old February 6th, 2020, 03:22 PM
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Nothing - the word turret is used to describe the weapon installation within/on the hull.
A laser would actually be a mirror array on the surface or recessed into the hull, a missile rack is internal with launch ports, as is the sandcaster.

People read the word turret and think of what they see on a tank or battleship - that image is in error. There is no external addition to the hull when you install a turret on a hardpoint. It is the fire control (sensors etc) that takes up the majority of the weapon space within the hull, the volume of the weapon system itself is a rounding error hidden within the 1t for fire control.
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Old February 6th, 2020, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Nothing - the word turret is used to describe the weapon installation within/on the hull.
A laser would actually be a mirror array on the surface or recessed into the hull, a missile rack is internal with launch ports, as is the sandcaster.

People read the word turret and think of what they see on a tank or battleship - that image is in error. There is no external addition to the hull when you install a turret on a hardpoint. It is the fire control (sensors etc) that takes up the majority of the weapon space within the hull, the volume of the weapon system itself is a rounding error hidden within the 1t for fire control.
Except in any illustration for any version of the game.
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Old February 6th, 2020, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
Heck, even the LBB2 design system has progression anomalies in the charts and a "scout" ship that cannot theoretically exist (It must be EXACTLY 100 dTons ... 99 dTons and it cannot jump; 101 dtons and it is only J1 ... so what happens when you remove the turret or upgrade to a triple turret?)
In the 1977 LBB2 design system, the Type S scout/courier can theoretically exist, but an erratum is needed for the listed base price of CR 32,490,000 (i.e. CR 36,100,000 before the 10% discount for a standard design). By my reckoning, its base price should be CR 27,630,000 (i.e. CR 30,700,000 before the 10% discount). It was Book 5 that made the 1977 Type S incapable of Jump-2, but that was remedied in Supplement 7 by replacing its Model/1 computer with a Model/1 bis computer, which in turn changed its base price to CR 29,430,000 (i.e. CR 32,700,000 before the 10% discount), reflecting the post-1977 price of the Model/1 bis at CR 4,000,000.

As Mike noted, nothing happens displacement-wise when its turret is removed or replaced.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 02:37 AM
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The artists get it wrong all the time...
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