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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2001, 05:21 PM
Capital_Q Capital_Q is offline
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Hello All,

I have been playing Traveller off and on since the early 80's and I have read (and own) nearly everything written for the game in all of it's forms.

One thing that has really bothered me about the last few attempts to revive the game (T4, Gurps, reprints, and now D20) is that none of these setting have advanced the timeline of the game.

What happens AFTER New Era? The Regency and the RC were headed for a bad confrontation when we last left them. Or advance it further than that, the 4th Imperium if you like.

Don't like New Era? I'm pretty sure the "Old School" at GDW had other plans for wrapping up the Rebellion ( I have an old HIWG paper stating Marc Miller's map of 1125 is no longer official).

I want to see new and exciting things taking place in the traveller universe. Not historical settings (though they make good one shots. I really wish GDW would have published the adventure where the PCs are in cold sleep and wake up at pivitol moments in history... but I digress).

Let's see more TL16 instead of TL12! Large events are already forgone conclusions in these other settings and GURPS hasn't even DONE anything with thier alternate timeline.

How about a war with the K'kree or cold war with the Hivers or any number of events to further flesh out the setting.

What is the future REALLY like?

What are your thoughts? Do I stand alone?
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  #2  
Old August 21st, 2001, 06:29 PM
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Well, there was that little trip of Avery into the face of the Empress Wave... perrsonally I would like to see the whole thing time-lined out somewhere (has anyone done it past MegaTraveller??????????????)

Gats'
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Old August 21st, 2001, 08:28 PM
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I raised some of these same issues on the TNE-RCES mailing list a couple of months back (figuring they'd be most likely to have given the future timeline some thought) and got some interesting responses, especially from MJ Dougherty. If he's not too busy with the T20 rulebook (which, admittedly, he probably is) I know he's been spotted regularly in these parts, so I'll let him speak for himself on this issue, if he so chooses.

But, then again, just in case he doesn't see this...

Short version: there is a non-zero chance that sometime in the not-too-extremely-distant future some product may be published which would wrap-up many of the big 'cliffhangers' of the TNE setting in something of a compromise-manner between the Nilsenian and Millerian views of the TU, allowing the timeline to move forward once again rather than endlessly circling the existing 'past' and/or idly second-guessing what Dave Nilsen may or may not have had in mind. As of now this product would more likely take the form of a series of novels than a game sourcebook, but at this point nothing is Official or settled, everything is still very much up in the air, and I probably shouldn't even be writing this.

That said, with the help of many folks on that list I've been able to piece together enough hints, rumors, apparent trends, historical precedents, idle speculations, wishful thinking, and wild conspiracy theories to come up with what I feel is probably a roughly accurate (65% or so) picture of what Charted Space might look like circa 1250 or so, and some vague ideas of what the 'Fourth Imperium' beyond might look like circa 1400 or so. It's by no means 'your daddy's Traveller' of the old status quo, but (IMO, at least) it is still recognizably 'the Traveller Universe' and something that I feel would make an interesting alternative to the (IMO again) bland 'historical' settings we've gotten recently.
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Old August 27th, 2001, 06:30 PM
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Maybe someone should make a Traveller: 2001 - accelerate the timeline 850 years or so. Possibly a refresh of The Long Night and a new Imperium. Maybe something new. (I didn't like the way the New Era was handled much.) And then every year (or even every six months), update it with a Gazeteer of sorts - to keep up fresh happenings, Library Data, TAS News, new technology, etc... But for the love of all that is holy, make it a hardcover!!!!!

Scout
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Old August 28th, 2001, 07:31 AM
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Yes, I read that.

Yes, I AM knee-deep in T20.

Yes, there is a forward timleine of the sort mentioned above.

And yes, there are some other things afoot, too. More than that I can't say right now.

MJD
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  #6  
Old August 28th, 2001, 03:05 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ScoutCadet469:
Maybe someone should make a Traveller: 2001 - accelerate the timeline 850 years or so. Possibly a refresh of The Long Night and a new Imperium. Maybe something new. (I didn't like the way the New Era was handled much.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Moving the timeline forward 800 or so years and making a 'fresh start' seems to be a relatively popular idea, but one I'm not too crazy about. I don't like the idea of divorcing from the 'past' and totally starting over, preferring historical continuity and cause & effect even if it means incorporating and/or addressing some of the more 'difficult' or distasteful elements of later (TNE-era) Canon.

While I don't like a lot of what seemed to be developing in the 'New Era' and have a strong and vaguely-irrational dislike for Dave Nilsen's writing-style and apparent attitudes (which I somewhat-infamously demonstrated recently on the TNE mailing list) I do think that we should at least acknowledge what he was trying to do (shake up the stasis of the OTU and turn it into a vibrant 'living' milieu) and try to intelligently engage the issues he raised and changes he made rather than copping out with an 'alternative' timeline or mooting everything through temporal distance (over an 800 year gap you can justify pretty much anything). Anything less would be showing him the same level of disrespect as I've often accused him of showing to Traveller's original creators.

That's why I'd like to see a setting of approx. 1450, or roughly 200 years post-New Era: enough historical distance that we're not shackled to the specifics of the TNE storyline, but still close enough that we can trace historical trends and cause & effect in an organic, rather than arbitrary, manner.

A parallel I like to draw is Traveller:2300 and Twilight:2000. In terms of game-play and style T2300 is nothing like T2K, but you can still trace the roots of the former within the latter and understand exactly what changes and developments occured to move from the one to the other, and I'd like to see a similar relation from TNE to Milieu 1450 -- the societies of 1450 won't be the same as those in TNE, on even immediately post-TNE, but their society will have been formed and their attitudes shaped by the outcome of those events, they will have learned things from them, and will be better off because of it.

Not traditional Traveller's dry Everything In Equilibrium status-quo, and not the world-turned-upside-down You MUST Buy The Next Supplement campaign micromanagement of TNE either, but the best of both worlds: a vibrant, dynamic, growing Universe with enough freedom and possibilities for individual GMs to explore whatever areas interest them and still feel like they're part of, and contributing to, a cohesive whole.

I like the idea of a Living Traveller Campaign, and yearly Travellers' Almanacs including fan-generated material: rather than dictating "In this year, your campaign will consist of X, Y, & Z" show us possibilities -- "If you follow path A, then it could lead to B, C, or possibly D; or here's examples of paths E and F that you might follow instead." It is possible to have campaign settings that breathe and grow without straightjacketing individual GMs into following the Official Storyline, and I think that's the sort of support-system Traveller needs for the 21st century.
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Old August 29th, 2001, 04:20 AM
Secrect Cow Level Secrect Cow Level is offline
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Everybody makes too big a deal over what is and isn't cannon. The bottom line is that each game group may decide upon the future history as they see fit. If you don't like Virus then don't use it. Why wait for somebody else to determine the future of the OTU. Create a timeline for yourself that fits with the vision of you and your group. After all, you're the ones who are playing in it, so make it the way you want it. Should Marc W. Miller, or Hunter or Loren Wiseman write something different, then use what you like and forget the rest. Campaigns will work just fine if you do or don't use the Fifth Frontier War, or the Rebellion, or the Collaspe. If you want a post TNE timeline, decide what happens after the last published material and go from there. Have fun!
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Old August 29th, 2001, 08:20 PM
Christopher Jennings Christopher Jennings is offline
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Heresy!!!!! Persecute the heathen!!!!!!!
Where's the Inquisition when you need one?
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Old August 30th, 2001, 05:58 PM
Capital_Q Capital_Q is offline
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Secret Cow, I hear ya but my point of view is this:

I am a damn good gamemaster (thankyaverymuch)but when it comes to writing good adventures I suck. In other words, I am a good director but a lousy screenwriter. So for someone who can write their own scenarios or make them up on the fly, your right, there is no reason to have everything laid out for you.

But in my opinion Traveller has become larger than the rules itself. It has (or had) a dynamic sci fi story that is nearly as exciting as the sources it draws from.

I didnt intend this topic to start the old New Era vs. Classic debate. I don't think New Era will ever be dismissed as canon. Personally, I hated the setting but I appriciate a lot of what was written that made the game more interesting.

That is what has been missing from Traveller ever since GDW closed up. There is no mystery, no new discoveries, no, "WOW! I wish I would have seen that coming".

T4 and Gurps Traveller (and TNE, mostly Frank Chadwick's influence) have taken the easy way out. Publish book after book of rules and stats that contain no "story" material.
Books on vehicles, equipment, starships, deckplans, sector stats, starships, a book devoted to the modular cutter for cryin out loud! These things aren't Traveller. Every Sci Fi game releases material like this. What sets traveller apart is the story, and I want more of it.
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Old September 4th, 2001, 04:13 PM
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I too want to hear what happens to the TNE milieu post 1200. I nominate that Harold Hale ought to lead the charge. His work on the Children of Earth was original and had a different flavor than what GDW was putting out.

Star Vikings were an idea of kick ass Merc terms with ethics.

Regency was there to keep the flame alive.

Pocket Empires were never fully developed by GDW.
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