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  #31  
Old December 8th, 2017, 11:36 AM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
The cost is still only 0.1% per year.
OK....then explain how monthly maintenance is costed out vs annual at a starport??

Ill wait....
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  #32  
Old December 8th, 2017, 12:04 PM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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I misread the critical hit rules, and have revised my earlier post to reflect that.

Ill be working with the Vehicle book next.
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  #33  
Old December 8th, 2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
No Athletics roll implied, note the lack of the words roll or check.
Use Dex DM or, if you have Athletics, Athletics skill + Dex DM.
This still doesn't change what I stated before, ONLY those with a High DEX or Athletics rank will have ANY chance at dodging. This is a bad rule.

Everyone should have a CHANCE to dodge, otherwise why bother? Take that VRFGG burst head on....

Hence my suggested change to a DEX or Athletics check rather than just applying a DM.
(Or make the attack opposed)
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  #34  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
OK....then explain how monthly maintenance is costed out vs annual at a starport??
All scheduled maintenance costs are amortised over 12 months for a total of /₁₀₀₀ of ship cost per year, so /₁₂₀₀₀ per month.
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  #35  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:22 PM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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Vehicles 2e.

I expect this to be lengthy and controversial.

First off, why in the world are Vehicles based on Volume rather than Mass? Vehicles are not sealed like starships requiring everything fit within the hull IN ORDER TO FIT INSIDE A JUMP BUBBLE!

Vehicles are only limited by two things: MASS of the vehicle and POWER required to move it. Neither of which are included in the Vehicles design book. I find this to be a HUGE oversight.

Chassis Type.
There are 20 listed core Chassis types, but really, there are 10, each with a Light and Heavy designation, plus Airship which doesn't fit into any other category.
The types are:
Ground Vehicle
Grav Vehicle
Unpowered (vehicle/boat)
Powered (boat/ship)
Submersible
Airship
Airplane
Jet
Helicopter
Walker
Hovercraft

Heavy versions, near as I can tell are bigger, more expensive versions, with more hull/volume.

Speed is a factor of TL.

Lets look at Ground Vehicles.
2 Hull/ space. That's 2 Hull points per 250cf.

(Id really like to see that based off of mass rather than volume. If we swap mass directly for volume, then we get 2 Hull per 250kg instead of 250cf. Figure an 1800kg car then would have 7 Hull. That same car has a volume of about 300 cubic feet (0.6 dTons) which would be a single space as written, and only have 2 Hull.

[Seriously, a 2016 Cadillac ATS-V weighs 1800kg, and is 4.7m long, 1.8m wide, and 1.3m tall. Figure its only fills 75% of that cube, we get 8.2 Cubic meters. Its no bigger than a single Mongoose Traveller "Space".

For all ground vehicles, Wheels are assumed standard, with Tracks doubling the cost, and reducing the speed.

The Heavy version of a ground vehicle costs 4 times as much, loses 2 points of agility, and gains an extra hull point per "space".

I'm still not sure what differentiates a ground vehicle chassis from a Grav vehicle chassis, or a hovercraft...one has wheels, one has thruster plates and one an air skirt. But the cahssis should be similar. >shrug<

There is no indication as to how much weight (mass) a vehicle can carry, or pull. The only allocation for a "suped-up" vehicle is the SPEED entry under performance.

There is also no allocation for power plants, its handwaved in the Power Plants sidebar, where PP type is based on TL. Apparently the only thing advanced PPs get you is higher max speed ratings. LOL
Except that Fission and Fusion are available but take a minimum of 10 spaces. Ok, that's 70 cubic meters, or 5 dTons. Not gonna put that in many ground cars.

My biggest two issues are with the Manipulator Arm, and the Brutus Heavy cargo Truck.

As written, the Manipulator arm has a STR and DEX based on TL, from 7 to 15.
I have two issues with this.
First, is the issue that a 250cf-500cf (that's 70-140 times the size of a person BTW) has a STR NO GREATER THAN A PERSON.

2nd: Per the lifting rules, STR and END determine lifting capacity. Well, the Arm has NO END listed. So how do you determine how much it can lift?

IF we assume that being a machine, its END is unlimited, and we use STR in its place, then our biggest STR 15 manipulator arm can lift (15+15) 30kg. WHoa that's a whole 66 lbs. So my Cr15,000 TL 10 manipulator can only lift a bag of dog food???

Ok, lets assume that because our machine has no END, it can lift the 2x (per the lifting rules w/o getting fatigued...that still only 60kg, or 120lbs. That's rediculous. We wont be lifting any cargo crates or shipping containers.

Frankly, I think manipulator arms and cranes should have a flat lifting capacity rather than use the lifting rules for characters. It just makes more sense, the bugger a crane or arm, the more it can lift.

Note that the cargo lifter entry on Pg. 97 makes no mention of its STR or its lifting ability, you have to search through the stat blocks until you see that it has Improved manipulator arms x2. Flipping back to pg 59, we can look up manipulator arms and see that Improved is TL8 with a STR of 15. See my example above. 30Kg. Does the second arm double the lifting capacity? If so, we could (with extrapolation as its NOT DISCUSSED ANYWHERE IN THE RULES) get the lifter up to 120kg (240 lbs). pathetic. I feel this is a huge omission, especially since 1) Players are goin gto ask, "how much can it lift" and 2) How much damage does it do when I hit someone with its club like arm? Neither of which are addressed.

My suggested house rule for vehicles (and battle dress) Lifting/carrying:

Encumbrance:
Vehicles can lift a number of Kg equal to listed STRx10 per arm.

So our TL 7 arm with ST 7 would lift/carry 140kg
TL 7 STR 12 arm would lift/carry 240kg
TL 10 STR 15 Arm would lift/carry 300kg.

What about a heavy crane arm? Extend the table upwards to allow for huge cranes.

Manipulator arms should also be purchased based on lifting capacity not size.


2) Brutus Heavy Truck.

The truck on pg 122 is bigger than a modern semi truck, and has less cargo capacity.

A modern semi-truck with a 53' trailer is about 8 dtons and has a cargo capacity of 18 Tons. The brutus is 15 dTons (60 spaces) and can carry 12.5 tons.

The brutus is twice the size of a semi with less carrying capacity.

Even if the Cargo tonnage is supposed to be dTons, ist still twice the size with only 50% more cargo space. Again I go back to cargo space should not be volume based, as its rarely enclosed. It should be weight (mass) driven.

As for me and my Traveller game, I will not be using the Vehicles book. It will be resigned to the bottom of a hamster cage.

I will simply use existing designs, and add HULL points, or use either the CT, Striker or T20 design charts, ones that make sense.
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  #36  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
This still doesn't change what I stated before, ONLY those with a High DEX or Athletics rank will have ANY chance at dodging. This is a bad rule.

Everyone should have a CHANCE to dodge, otherwise why bother? Take that VRFGG burst head on....
I agree that it is a strange design choice.

How do you dodge a machine gun burst or even a single bullet? You might evade, e.g. run in zig-zag, but that should affect all attacks (and do very little against a area effect attacks like bursts)?
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  #37  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:25 PM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
All scheduled maintenance costs are amortised over 12 months for a total of /₁₀₀₀ of ship cost per year, so /₁₂₀₀₀ per month.
We have firmly established that.

So what is required to be done annually at the starport? just One Months worth of maintenance?

And it costs the SAME to have the starport mechanics do the work as it does having the crew do it themselves every month?
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  #38  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
I agree that it is a strange design choice.

How do you dodge a machine gun burst or even a single bullet? You might evade, e.g. run in zig-zag, but that should affect all attacks (and do very little against a area effect attacks like bursts)?
Consider that, even a point or two of effect on a dodge roll may not keep you from getting hit, but it will certainly reduce the severity of the hit!
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  #39  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:32 PM
Grognard Grognard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
I agree that it is a strange design choice.

How do you dodge a machine gun burst or even a single bullet? You might evade, e.g. run in zig-zag, but that should affect all attacks (and do very little against a area effect attacks like bursts)?
That's where Diving For Cover comes in.
Pg 73

"A traveler diving for cover inflicts a DM of -2 on every attacker who targets him this round."

"HE must dive behind any object within 1.5m....if there is no cover nearby, the traveler only gets a DM of -1 to attack rolls."

Its good to fight next to cover!

I might suggest that Diving For Cover is still a Dodge, and uses the same mechanic, BUT the character who is diving gets BOTH the dodge effect and the Cover DM.

With the rules as written, you have two options:

Dodge (IF you have ranks or high enough DEX and add them as a -DM)
or
Dive for cover for a DM-2. (DM -1 if no cover available)

The rules mechanics allow for the attacker to use the effect of the attack roll to inflict additional damage. Shouldn't the defender get the same courtesy?

The same should apply to Parrying.


Suggested Rule Revision:

Dodging, Parrying and Diving for Cover:
A Traveller may attempt to dodge an attack, (more of an evade) as a reaction, by testing their Athletics (DEX), Average (8+) and applying the effect as a -DM to the attackers roll. Subsequent actions, and further reactions suffer a cumulative -1 DM this round.

A Traveller may also opt to dive behind available cover, or go prone. "Hit the dirt". The Traveller tests Athletics, as above and imposes a DM of the dodge effect roll, +2 as a negative DM on all attacks targeting him this round. If there is no suitable cover available, the traveler goes prone and only imposes a negative DM of the Dodge effect, +1. The traveler must forgo their next action.

Parrying works as dodging above, but tests the defenders Melee skill.
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  #40  
Old December 8th, 2017, 01:38 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
Vehicles 2e.

I expect this to be lengthy and controversial.
...
As for me and my Traveller game, I will not be using the Vehicles book.
Not controversial, I agree... I assume they tried to make a very simple system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
First off, why in the world are Vehicles based on Volume rather than Mass?
They're not. 1 Space = 250 kg (mass), however non-obvious and misnamed that is.
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