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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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  #1  
Old October 8th, 2004, 01:49 AM
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IIRC, both MT and FFS1 say that for every 6 people on your ship, you need a person to act as Command Crew. Thusly, divide your total crew by 6, and this is the number of additional command crew needed.

However, I have recently been browsing statistics about US Battleships over at warships1 and found that in general, there are anywhere from 10-20 enlisted to each officer.

One could make the argument that Chief Petty Officers, or even regular Petty Officers, are supposed to be included in this command crew, but I am not sure this is supported by the way ships are made.

In the Navy, Officers get staterooms. At worst, they pair up, though the Command Crew of a large ship (the Heads of the Departments and the CO and XO) get their own staterooms. (Small ships see this rule broken a bit, but the CO still gets his own cabin.)

Enlisted people don't get staterooms (excepting the Command Master Chief, the highest renking Enlisted person), they sleep in racks, or bunks as its listed in the books.

So, depending on the total crew complement of your ship, you should probably use a median figure of 1 per 15. Ships with less than 500 would tend toward the 1 per 10 figure, ships with more than 3000 would tend toward the 1 per 20 figure.

As to berthing...

CO and Flag always get their own staterooms. These are large staterooms, unless the ship is small, like a cruiser. XO usually gets his own stateroom, and it will probably be the same size as the CO's. These people use half their staterooms as an office.

Department Heads (typically 3-7 people) get their own small stateroom. Other officers get to split a small stateroom per 2 people. Marines will split such a stateroom among 4 officers. Note this is NOT hot bunking, there are 2 or 4 racks in each room.

Enlisted people will sleep in racks (bunks). Probably only on subs or old destroyers will you see hot-bunking, though I suppose a battlecruiser might do so as well if the spinal mount takes up too much of the hull.

A stack of 3 racks takes up 1 displacement ton, though Marines are allocated 4 racks in that stack, and the racks are correspondingly thinner since they don't really need the storage space under the rack itself.
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Old October 9th, 2004, 02:28 PM
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CP/s usually bunk together, often in cabins.
The "planning cabin" for CPOs in the US Navy's new LPD-17 class. seems to sleep 6 in about 4Dton (i.e, about 18m2).

Or I have been figuring that a nuclear sub has about 6 bunks per Dton. Figuring in mess space and hygeine it works out to between 2-4 crew per Dton. CPOs and officers have it better, but still about 1 Dton/officer total, including wardroom & hygeine.

As for command crew, you must remember that U.S. Navy's battleships had industrial age technology and manning, so there were a lot of peons to inrease the leader-to-led ratio.
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Old October 10th, 2004, 03:47 AM
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But it's about the same today. My ship was like that. I don't have hard numbers atm, but I figue if I can find my crew's book I can count em up. I seriously doubt there were less than 10 of us peons per zero.
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Old October 11th, 2004, 09:55 PM
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A lot depends on the nature of command crew. Are all officers? or does it include Yeoman Jones, too?

The formulae would tend to imply that it's officers and chiefs... but not admin weenies.
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Old October 14th, 2004, 01:05 PM
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Well, the formula would imply that we're talking about NCOs; if you include E5 and up, then you get a ratio approaching 1:6 or so. But the book goes on to say (or at least imply) that command crew are deserving of better berthing. Before I joined the Navy, when Megatraveller was the thing, my cousin and I designed dozens of ships, and one thing we always felt was part of a design was that non-command crew slept 4 to a large stateroom, command crew slept 2 to a large stateroom, and the CO (and XO if there were an even number of crew) had their own single occupancy staterooms. And we of course thought command crew was officers only; after seeing TV shows which only depict officers as main characters, you think that you need a bunch of them.

Now that I've been in the navy, I know that this is not the way things are; regular Joes don't get staterooms on military ships. I would imagine that cruise liners are a different story, and perhaps the regular merchant marine; they are probably a lot closer to our expectations back then.
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Old October 16th, 2004, 04:11 AM
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Hmm... well if we assume (for sanity's sake) that it's just CHiefs (E7+) and officers... and assume a somewhat more top-heavy navy, the numbers work well.

Let me restate this a bit... Command crew might include some particular staff weenies: Political Officers and Chaplains. Given that any subsector can be expected to have 3-4 significant religions per ship, assuming all ships enlisted are drawn from a single subsector, and mostly from a single world, we can expect that the larger the crew, the more likely to have chaplains for lesser sects, and possibly multiples for a signle sect, maybe two. Likewise, it is highly likely that the sector and subsector duke will have political officers assigned...

It is amazing how we forget that Many regimes on the planet use Political officers... and that that is probably more likely in the autocratic 3I than under current western republican formats.
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Old October 16th, 2004, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aramis:

It is amazing how we forget that Many regimes on the planet use Political officers... and that that is probably more likely in the autocratic 3I than under current western republican formats.
IMTU political officers are fairly common in planetary forces, especially those from balkanized or high law worlds. As far as the Imperial forces go, I usually don't use them. I kind of take the high number of officers who are also Imperial nobles (especially in the IN) as providing the same type of control/influence on the operation of their vessels that a political officer would try to exert.
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Old October 23rd, 2004, 09:19 AM
vermeylenhans vermeylenhans is offline
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Belgian Navy minehunters (Flower class, used by French and Dutch Navy too, but with different names):

CO (usually 04) and XO (usually 03): one stateroom each.

OPS (operations officer, usualy 02) and ARM (weapons officer, usualy 01 or 02): one stateroom for them both.

SUPPLY (supply officer, an optional function not actualy present on every ship, usualy 01 or 02) and NAVI (navigator: a CPO acting as officer of the watch, that is being in charge of the bridge 8 hours a day): one stateroom for them both.

CHEF CO (A CPO in charge of the CO, belgian minehunters linguo for CIC) and CHEF PLONGEUR (Chief diver: a PO acting both as a diver and as the boatsman, that is the chief of the deck gang): one stateroom for them both.

HTD (CPO head of technical department) and CHEF ELEC (CPO, chief electrician): one stateroom for them both.

Coxwain (CPO in charge of both admistration and crew discipline) and ELOSON or ELORAD(the oldest of the two, the other one bunks with the crew, a PO, electronicics specilized in sonar or radar): one stateroom for them both.

That is: CO and XO, each in their one stateroom; 3 junior officers and the 7 most senior PO, per two in 5 staterooms. The rest of the crew (36 peoples) bunks in three 6-people and two 9 people spaces.

Note that every stateroom double as office for the people occupying it. The coxwain as a ship's office about the size of half a cabin and the tech gang as a single tech office the same size to share.
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  #9  
Old October 24th, 2004, 03:33 AM
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5 officers for a crew of 42 ratings and chiefs.
slightly less than Traveller rates for officers only (just under 1 per 8)

But, lets see which are command crew:
CO, XO: Definitely
Supply: probably
NAVI: No... he's the navigator, a non-command crew post.
ChCO: Probably.
Coxswain: Yup.
HTD: Chief engineer: thus not a CC slot.
Chef Elec, Eloson, Elorad: Engineers or Electronics crew all (version dependant), but for arguments sake, Chef Elec might be CC.
The pilots are probably ratings...
So I count 6 CC....

Thanks for the details, Hans! Great food for crunching (but that's a pretty small crew).

One additional question:
How many Yeomen (Admin clerks), supply ratings, and "fluff" (Barbers, morale staff, clergy/chaplains, political department, intell)
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #10  
Old October 24th, 2004, 05:28 AM
vermeylenhans vermeylenhans is offline
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I would consider HTD command crew as he is head of technical department. The name clearly (HTD means 'hoofd technise dienst', head of technical service in dutch) indicate that is main job is suppervision of technical jobs rather than actually technical. In real, it's somewhere in between...
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