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In My 2300 Universe Discussion of non-canon ideas for use in your 2300 Universe

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  #61  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
In GURPS Interstellar War, diseases caught from Terrans was a very big source of death in the Vilani Empire according to the source book. So while the bio-engineering might be a great idea, it could be that the transplanted human races just didn't experience the native biome so there were a limited number of diseases they'd be susceptible to.
That's kinda my take as well, and thank you for reanimating this thread - I've been thinking over, and actually braindumping into OneNote some of my old ideas for a Trav/2300 mashup for a Proto-ATU. I had forgotten all about this thread, so thank you for bringing it up, although some cursing also, as this is a new angle from where I'd been going with it. But some of that stuff that I was doing was overly- (and visibly-) influenced by a particular SF novel that I read a few years back, before the brain injury of 2015... I prefer my borrowings to be a bit less obvious, a bit more subtle, so maybe bringing in the Vilani is security by obscurity, at least in a Traveller game... doesn't help me much if I ever want to use it in fiction, although thats's probably not a real possibility anymore thanks to my Old Pal (and Universal Blame Target!), The Brain Butcher!

Anyway, yeah, I like tne idea that the Ancients fixed everybody up, the prehumans that they took far and away as well as the prehumans that they left on Sol III, giving everybody immunities to whatever bugs were currently buggin' 'em, plus a general immunity boost to face such new bugs as might be encountered down the way. Maybe they cooked up new immunizations as needed for those prehumans with whom they were still in contact, upon the occasion of those rare bugs from other ecologies that found themselves able to prey upon those tasty prehumans, whom the Ancients still found useful and preferred un-preyed-upon. But then along came that nasty spat between Gramps and his descendants [or fill in the blank with your own Ancient War or Ancient Plague or other Bye-Bye, Ancients] and all of this Ancients Dunnit stopped being Done, and all the various scattered humans (or pre-) had to get along from that point forward on their own.

AAAAND...[yes, yes, I'm getting to that!] WHILE we all know that the Vilani needed their Shuglii to help them make Vland foods edible, and were hindered in their study of biology and medicine by having no near relatives among the local fauna, and vastly hindered in developing a germ theory bc Vland germs found them un-tasty, YES, MEANWHILE, we should acknowledge that pretty near this same situation was happening to every other subspecies of humaniti, except for those who got left at home on good old Sol III, or for whom a really big chunk of That Good Home Ecosphere was transported along to wherever they were taken. Because without that, well... they were just gonna miss out on a lot on the new disease front over the next 300,000 years.

While I can agree that folks wandering the stars will encounter the occasional bug (bacteria, virus, prion, whatever) that just happens to have their number, I'm afraid that with their poor levels of biological/medical science, if there is no existing race of humaniti that already has immunity to this bug then the result is going to be a dead colony, and death for everyone who had contact with the bug! (Or maybe sniffles or a rash, if that's the worst this bug can do.) But, while I can see the Vilani and others maybe getting really good at biohazard suits, and nasty showers to prevent bringing nasty biohazards back on board ship, I just don't see them going beyond that to figuring out immunizations and all the other necessary medical science to go along with it, being so, so, SO FAR BEHIND TERRANS IN NECESSARY EXPERIENCE!!! Just think, even in the past few millenia of recorded history we've had bugs crossing species barriers to/from humans, birds, reptiles, apes, elephants (maybe), insects, rodents, swine, practically every domesticated (pet or livestock) species I can think of... And most of those humans evolving in other places these past 300,000 years had none of that.

Yeah, I think Interstellar Wars vastly understated the case for Terran --> Vilani plagues, and that's even if the Terrans did nothing to intentionally weaponize smallpox, measles, anthrax, or various tropical hemorrhagic fevers.
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  #62  
Old October 3rd, 2019, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
In GURPS Interstellar War, diseases caught from Terrans was a very big source of death in the Vilani Empire according to the source book. So while the bio-engineering might be a great idea, it could be that the transplanted human races just didn't experience the native biome so there were a limited number of diseases they'd be susceptible to
The curently unavailable, older Megatraveller Alien Vol.1 Vilani and Vargr started this avenue by going into more detail. Little bits like not having to worry about diseases during surgery(!). The native fauna not being compatible until "fermented", the shilugi caste (the food makers), etc.

I suspect, but cannot prove this was the case for every other Terran transplanted group. No reported major die-offs in the OTU like that. Zhodane Droyne do not count as that was directly due to Grandfather or one of his naughty sons. No reported disease die-off during the early Geonee/Vilani/Suerrat/Luriani/etc. interactions. Lots about wars, but no disease.
Curiously, this hypothesis fails with the Darrians. Darrians and Terrans met with no die off reported either. I forget, did they meet the Vilani during The Long Night? Before or after the Terrans did?

OTOH You can't prove a negative. It is poor science.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 10:32 PM
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I think the Plague of Duskir was really caused by Terran Confederation bio-warfare aimed at the Vilani using tailored viruses.
It makes sense. The Terrans were grossly outmatched in numbers and industrial capacities. Fear of being overwhelmed might have driven the Terran regime to extreme measures carried out in great secrecy.


Of course, if the Vilani had discovered the truth in time they might have developed countermeasures and then fought on without mercy. I suppose they would institute a strict quarantine, a no quarter/no prisoners policy, and the genocidal use of nuclear weapons and orbital bombardment against Terran colonies and, if they could get there, Terra itself.
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