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  #261  
Old August 28th, 2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
There is probably something in Trillion Credit Squadron but at the scale of a single smaller-than-a-battleship civilian ship a couple of hours sounds right. I would imagine most of that would be in the skim maneuver itself, and processing can be done on the way to the system destination. If the skimming ship is heading out into jump the time might be longer.

Pumping lquid water into the tanks might take less time for the fill-up since its denser than a jovian atmosphere but the processing time would be at least just as long. I think an hour per 25 tons for purifying to unrefined fuel is fair as a rule of thumb, maybe half that for the skim?
But then don't you end up w tanks somewhat (or a lot) less than full? If your scoop fills up the tanks - or some tanks, I don't think you'd want to mix the stuff into the fuel you are already using - w GG atmo, and then your purifier throws out everything that isn't useable as fuel (basically just isotopes of hydrogen, correct?), then the volume of fuel left in your tanks would be less than the volume of the GG atmo that you scooped. So it seems like refuel by scooping (even repeated scoops) would always leave somewhat less than full tanks. Right?
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  #262  
Old August 28th, 2013, 04:55 PM
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You're right. It's one of those iffy things in the game system left for refs and players to decide how important it is. I'm pretty sure TCS has something on the times but probably not the exact process since its a fleet scale book. I wonder what T5 has? Any rules so dense they include genetic coding and inheritance for characters must have at least a passing mention on frontier refueling. I leave here in a few minutes and will see what I can find in my pile of rule sets for Trav. Somebody had to have written something somewhere.

Otherwise executive fiat will do.
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  #263  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
You're right. It's one of those iffy things in the game system left for refs and players to decide how important it is. I'm pretty sure TCS has something on the times but probably not the exact process since its a fleet scale book. I wonder what T5 has? Any rules so dense they include genetic coding and inheritance for characters must have at least a passing mention on frontier refueling. I leave here in a few minutes and will see what I can find in my pile of rule sets for Trav. Somebody had to have written something somewhere.

Otherwise executive fiat will do.
Executive Fiat: Scoop Refuelling for most trader-sized ships takes [st]two[/st] four hours per pass through GG atmo, which after purifying will net up to [st]100[/st] 50 tons unrefined fuel. If you need more fuel than that, another pass is required.

OK, all done w that subject.

EDIT: OK, the Executive re-read your other post above and has increased time and decreased net fuel accordingly. It is Good to be the Executive!
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  #264  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
OK, I got caught up on the IC discussion - don't really see anything for me to respond to - are y'all ready to call Vulpinerrin back again for more negotiation?
I think so.

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Anybody have more info on how long it takes to refuel by scooping, and perhaps interested in running the math to ETA at 2G afterward?
Look here for a discussion. (A week?!?!? )

You are correct on the approximate distance. It is closer to 111-112 hours at 2G. (Remember that 2G to 3G is a 50% improvement in accel, but you only take half the accel in your equation.)

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Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
But then don't you end up w tanks somewhat (or a lot) less than full?
I believe what you're saying here is that if you scoop your tanks full, but they contain impurities, then you process the fuel, you will end up with tanks that are less full than they were - so you have to go back and do it again, always getting halfway to the end.......
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  #265  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:28 PM
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I believe what you're saying here is that if you scoop your tanks full, but they contain impurities, then you process the fuel, you will end up with tanks that are less full than they were - so you have to go back and do it again, always getting halfway to the end.......
Yeah, like Zeno's Arrow, or Aristotle's Turtle, or something like that.

However, see above for Executive Fiat Decree to simplify matters.
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  #266  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:32 PM
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I think that as soon as I get the SBRD Wiki a little better organized, we will be able to keep a ship's log in there noting down events such as course calculations or noting some other vessel coming out of jump, stuff like that so we don't have to hunt through threads for the numbers. I'll try to remember, but would of course welcome assistance from any of our players who care to sign up for the wiki so you can edit as well as read it (you don't have to sign up just to read it).
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  #267  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:34 PM
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Oh, sorry, I am late again.

Here is bits from various Traveller editions.

AZHANTI FUELLING PROCEDURES
The fuelling procedure for the Lightning class ships is well thought out, and includes several options.

Administrative Refuelling:

This procedure is used to replenish fuel supplies in a normal system with a gas giant easily accessible and with no enemy threat present. Nestled along the ventral groove of the ship are four 400-ton fuel shuttles. Each can carry 350 tons of fuel; and is streamlined for refueling dips into the gas giant.
The four shuttles, working together, can skim 1400 tons in three hours, or completely refuel the ship in 27 trips (slightly over three days). Normally, one or more shuttles are diverted to administrative uses, complete with passenger seats installed, and the refueling (using only three shuttles) takes closer to a week. If the fuel source is an ocean, the shuttles must penetrate the atmosphere, land in the ocean, and fill their tanks.
The procedure takes twice as long (six hours per load; about seven days for complete refuelling). Finally, the fuel source may be an ice cap. The shuttles take nine to ten hours per load, and the complete refueling can take upwards of ten days.



Unrefined fuel, when used in starship drives and power plants, can result in equipment malfunctions and misjumps. This can be avoided with the use of a fuel purification plant which allows refining of the raw gas before it is used in the drives.
The fuel purification table indicates the various models of plants available: tech level is the tech level at which the plant is produced, tonnage is the tonnage required aboard ship, and cost is the price of the plant in credits. The fuel purification plant cost is based on 1,000 tons of fuel.
A large ship with a large fuel tank capacity requires several plants. A small fuel tank capacity requires a fraction of the fuel purification plant shown. In no case may a fuel purification plant be procured with less than one-fifth the tonnage and price shown.

FUEL
PURIFICATION
Code:
TL 		Tons 		Cost
8		50		200,000
9		45		190,000
10		40		180,000
11		35		170,000
12		30		160,000
13		25		150,000
14		20		140,000
15		15		150,000
-Per 1000 tons of fuel.




Gas Giants:
Most star systems include in their family of planets one or more gas giants large worlds with hydrogen or methane atmospheres. These gas giants are a valuable source of fuel for starships. In order to refuel from a gas giant, a ship must move into orbit around it, and then dive deep into its atmosphere with open fuel scoops. The procedure (called skimming) takes approximately eight hours, and results in fuel tanks loaded with unrefined fuel.

Ocean Refueling:
Ships can refuel from the water oceans of any world with a non-zero hydrographic percentage. The process calls for the ship to land in or near an ocean and then fill its tanks with unrefined fuel from the local water supply. It takes approximately four hours.

Gas Giants:
Most star systems include in their family of planets one or more gas giant worlds with hydrogen or methane atmospheres. These gas giants are a valuable source of fuel for starships.
In order to refuel from a gas giant, a ship must move into orbit around it and then dive deep into its atmosphere with open fuel scoops. The procedure (called skimming) takes approximately 10 hours and results in fuel tanks filled with unrefined fuel. Skimming is an Average task using Pilot (Interface/Grav).
The upper reaches of a gas giant's atmosphere are dangerous. Failures on the task rolls can include simple turbulence, excessive radiation exposure, collision with debris, heat damage to the ship's hull, getting caught in a swirling cyclone storm, or getting caught in the gas giant's gravity well.


Ocean Refuellng:
Ships can refuel from the water oceans of any world with a non-zero hydrographic percentage. Ocean refueling may require a permit on some worlds; roll law level or less on 2D6 to determine this. If the PCs wish to refuel their ship illegally, they should avoid populated areas, and they will have to circumvent the local world's sensors (if any).
The process calls for the ship to land in or near an Ocean and fill its tanks from the local water supply. It takes approximately two hours and results in fuel tanks filled with unrefined fuel. Ocean refueling is an Average task using Pilot (Interface/Grav). Catastrophic Failures, when they occur, can include water leaks, corrosion damage from sea salts, running aground, sinking, or getting caught in a hurricane.
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  #268  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:41 PM
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Thanks, Dave! I am gonna need a little time to digest all of that, but I really appreciate you taking the time to post it.

I guess you can see the big negotiation thing going on in the IC thread. Is Doc heading back to the ship after delivering that last container to the soldier's parents, or checking on more robotic parts, or ???


EDIT: Wow, I can see the Consistency Editor was asleep when those different rulesets were made, but I think we can cobble something useful out of them. They seem to imply that just filling up w ocean water gives you unrefined fuel, which is silly, you'd need to get all of the salts and minerals out, plus electrolyze the water for hydrogen fuel and oxygen for your life-support system.
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  #269  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:52 PM
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Anyone have recommendations for keeping track of time when the party splits up all over the place? This isn't something that is usually a problem at the gaming table as most groups just stay together.

I'm not complaining about the party splitting up at all! I like this aspect of PbP (or PbF they are calling it now?), as it is much more realistic than having the whole group troop around together whenever one person needs to run an errand or something.

I'm just having some trouble w the timekeeping.
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  #270  
Old August 28th, 2013, 05:58 PM
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...

I guess you can see the big negotiation thing going on in the IC thread. Is Doc heading back to the ship after delivering that last container to the soldier's parents, or checking on more robotic parts, or ???
Doc would be returning to the ship after the deliveries

Quote:

EDIT: Wow, I can see the Consistency Editor was asleep when those different rulesets were made, but I think we can cobble something useful out of them. They seem to imply that just filling up w ocean water gives you unrefined fuel, which is silly, you'd need to get all of the salts and minerals out, plus electrolyze the water for hydrogen fuel and oxygen for your life-support system.
Do you know that there is gold in the ocean water?

Think about that running through your power plant or Jump engines. 100 Cr per ton for unrefined fuel. 500 Cr for refined fuel. There must be a reason
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