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Old May 4th, 2016, 05:47 PM
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Default Canon Problems with MgT Third Imperium supplements?

I'm calling for specific canon problems found in Mongoose Travellers' Third Imperium books. And other books, as well, if there are any (though it seems less applicable to find canon problems in High Guard, for example).
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Old May 4th, 2016, 10:18 PM
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Aside from the Aslan art?
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Old May 4th, 2016, 10:57 PM
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Aside from the Aslan art?
Spoiler:

Do the shoes look uncomfortable?
(I read somewhere about Aslan and comfortable shoes back on the TML.)
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Old May 5th, 2016, 01:58 AM
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Robject, you have opened the proverbial .

Aside from the countless complaints of the art in Aslan (literally turning them into men in lion headed costumes), and the turning of the Vargar from "The wolves of Space" into the blood-hound headed dog-men, not to mention the "Elves in space treatment of the Darrians, the biggest issue with Mongooses alien supplements are with Solomani and Sword-Worlds.

The Solomani have been scrubbed of all redeeming features, and literally turned into a species of racists and fascists. If you accept and play them as written in the Solomani book published by Mongoose, they are in no way suitable for use as anything other than NPC villains and foes. Allowing players to run PCs using those rules is tantamount to telling them that Hate and Racism are acceptable beliefs and suitable values to role-play. The Men of the star Sol, the descendants of those humans who originated on Earth, have been turned into what amounts to being "Space-Nazis". The book is neither family friendly, nor anything that should be associated with the Traveller IP.

As for the Sword -Worlders, they have been stripped of enough of their background depth that they are now almost as bad as the Solomani. They have been reduced to misogynistic space-vikings, and a bad parody of the cultures they are said to be descended from.

Sadly, if you take the time and read almost any of the Mongoose Alien modules, and are able to ignore the outright horrible artwork, you are going to find they are rife with errors, full of statements that run contrary to versions that have come before them, and make a mockery of what were once amazing parts of the Traveller IP.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 03:04 AM
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Apart from Don's Zhodani module, I ignore every MgT module.

It wasn't a decision made lightly. It was a decision that was made after close reading of the products in question.

Mongoose has both dumbed down canon and removed any of the nuances that previously existed. It's sad to think that there are Traveller players who only know Mongoose's version.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 09:17 AM
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OK then. Let's evaluate their books at a high level.

(I note the curious possibility that canon problems with MgT will pass out of significance if they let their titles go out of print as fast as they seem to be doing).

(Which is a shame due to MgT: Zhodani)
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Old May 5th, 2016, 11:32 AM
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OK then. Let's evaluate their books at a high level.

(I note the curious possibility that canon problems with MgT will pass out of significance if they let their titles go out of print as fast as they seem to be doing).

(Which is a shame due to MgT: Zhodani)
These days? Not so much. Us old folks like physical books, but PDFs are the default for Mongoose and many others. Physical print runs are becoming less and less significant to the survival of an RPG product. The only Traveller products that are now threatened with death by obscurity are those Marc has not been able to re-release as PDFs; namely the DGP and Paranoia Press lines and umpty jillion magazine articles.

For a Canon analysis, Mongoose has produced relatively few books, but I don't think we can use the lack of a current print run to ignore them.

Tonal shifts are not new with Mongoose, either. The nature of the Aslan has been a tug-of-war since very early, and the questions about the Vargr ability to form states or develop high technology are similarly as old as CT. The Solomani of CT are pretty unsympathetic, while DGP pulled the other way. Hans (via GURPS) tried to make the Sword Worlders less of the unstable dupes they come across as in CT materials, but I'm not sure he succeeded. The K'kree and Hivers have also see-sawed; it is actually considered a feature of the Hivers instead of a bug.

Approaching ALL of them as DGP and TNE did, as "in universe" documents aside from the game mechanical bits, largely solves the problem. ALL of it is propaganda written by someone within the setting. Objectivity is fleeting within those pages. All of it is true of some; none of it is true for all.

Well, except for the Mongoose Aslan art.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 11:51 AM
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OK, granted that "in universe" is a good way to approach Traveller books.

Since the discussion has evolved to this point, then, let me ask the real question: is it too much effort to write Third Imperium material? Traveller material in general?

The first answer is "no": every document is "in universe".

But the second answer is "yes": despite the in-universe-ness of books, there is such a thing as core canon... but it's slippery and scattered.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 01:34 PM
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I don't like physical books, unless it's maps. pdf is easier.

They have all these starship designs (i covered in the starship design thread last year) and no ships CD full of maps. They paid for little picture art of ship designs which is helpful but certainly not idea.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 03:28 PM
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Tangent Question: What would you call the definitive source of GOOD aslan art?
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