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Old September 3rd, 2017, 08:35 AM
Honken Honken is offline
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Red face Cargo Load times?!

Hello fellow Travellers!

I think this is my first post (i think) on this site, though I have been a member for a looong time.

Anyway, I am playing Mongoose Traveller 2nd ed. And we are playing a Free Trader type campaign.

My question to the combined wisdom of CotI is how do you handle freight loading/unloading time? I don't want to make it overly complicated, but I am looking for some useful guidelines.

TIA
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 11:23 AM
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I don't know if Mongoose has a specific rule. It may. But, in Classic Traveller, which MGT is based upon, Cargo handling happens in about a day.

A ship makes port, pays docking fees, and spends the rest of the work day unloading cargo and working with the broker/traders to alert them that the cargo is at the starport ready to be warehoused or moved to its next destination. The ship is also refueled and consumables are restocked. Someone alerts the starport booking service of the ship's next destination in order to get a listing to attract passengers. Or, someone starts looking at the listings and talking with the brokers/traders for new cargo lots or speculative trade ideas.

Random roll for time specifically with just the cargo? I'd go with 1d3 + 3 hours, or 1d3 + 2 hours.

Remember, though, on some worlds, the ship does all its cargo transfer in space. The cargo handlers suit up. The hold goes into zero G. And, the cargo modules are floated out to a holding area in orbit.
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 11:28 AM
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Without referencing any Edition of Traveller, I always held unloading Freight, Mail, speculative Cargo and Passengers and the loading new hauls to take approximately 24 hours. That is without Maintenance, Life Support, repairs or the alternative annual Overhaul. For me, a set of rolls for Trade & Commerce takes at least 24 hours.

There are TL-8+ ways to cut corners of course. Online shopping while on final approach is one. Arbitrarily deciding to exclude a type of haul is certainly another.

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Old September 3rd, 2017, 03:37 PM
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you could make your own rule. take a base of 36 hours and subtract d6 hours for each level of broker skill, d6 hours for each level of liaison skill, d6 hours for each level of deckhand skill, d6 hours if an A or B port. etc. whatever suits you and your game.
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honken View Post
My question to the combined wisdom of CotI is how do you handle freight loading/unloading time?
Depends on how the characters are role-playing. Nothing is etched in stone.
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:27 PM
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For those willing to brave Customary units, GT: Far Trader has the following table on page 58.

Code:
Type       Rate (dtons/hr)       Remarks
Breakbulk      30                   Less than 1 dton/unit or non standardized
RO/RO          120                  Includes 50% wastage for vehicles
Container      180                  One D/ton or more per unit, standardized
Dry Bulk       360                  Loaded by conveyor/pipline, otherwise treat as container
Liquid Bulk    540                  Loaded by pipeline
Increases in stevedores and equipment may increase the speed, but not by more that 1/2 (pesky space limitations!).
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MThompson016 View Post
For those willing to brave Customary units, GT: Far Trader has the following table on page 58.

Code:
Type       Rate (dtons/hr)       Remarks
Breakbulk      30                   Less than 1 dton/unit or non standardized
RO/RO          120                  Includes 50% wastage for vehicles
Container      180                  One D/ton or more per unit, standardized
Dry Bulk       360                  Loaded by conveyor/pipline, otherwise treat as container
Liquid Bulk    540                  Loaded by pipeline
Increases in stevedores and equipment may increase the speed, but not by more that 1/2 (pesky space limitations!).

What is Breakbulk and RO/RO?
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
What is Breakbulk and RO/RO?
Breakbulk: paletted, boxed, crated, or in barrels, rather than in standard containers.

RO/RO: Roll On/Roll Off. Either in wheeled containers (freight cars) or in vehicles.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MThompson016 View Post
For those willing to brave Customary units, GT: Far Trader has the following table on page 58.

Code:
Type       Rate (dtons/hr)       Remarks
Breakbulk      30                   Less than 1 dton/unit or non standardized
RO/RO          120                  Includes 50% wastage for vehicles
Container      180                  One D/ton or more per unit, standardized
Dry Bulk       360                  Loaded by conveyor/pipline, otherwise treat as container
Liquid Bulk    540                  Loaded by pipeline
Increases in stevedores and equipment may increase the speed, but not by more that 1/2 (pesky space limitations!).
Having worked in a warehouse, plus time as an Army Supply Officer who still studies logistics, a few comments on your list.

The 30 tons an hour for break-bulk is quite high, unless all of the cargo is palletized and you have a fair amount of material handling equipment. If you have to first palletise the cargo, then you are looking at maybe 30 tons an 8 hour shift.

For Roll-On/Roll-Off, that is low, unless you have a limited opening allowing only one vehicle at a time to exit. LST unloading times in World War 2 with loaded 2 and a half ton trucks with trailers could be a low as 15 minutes. They did have the motivation of avoiding air attack though.

Container unloading is going to be restricted by how many opening you have to unload them through. If you have 3 or so large unloading doors, you might reach the 180 tons, otherwise, it is going to be slower. Those large Traveller containers are not going to be the easiest things to manage.

As for dry bulk cargo and liquid cargo, current unloading times run into thousands of mass tons per hour. For the big Lake bulk carriers of dry cargo, 60,000 tons unloaded in 10 hours is about average. Now, that does include unloading through multiple hatches.

For liquid bulk carriers, that 540 Traveller dTons equates to about 270,000 cubic feet per hour, or a bit over 2,000,000 gallons per hour, rounding 7.5 gallons per cubic foot. An 8 inch terminal pipeline can handle 1,135,000 gallons per day, while the T2 tanker, which could handle 5,922;000 gallons of liquid, could discharge at 4,000 gallons per minute, or 240,000 gallons per hour. You are going to need either a lot of pumps, or some very large ones to make that discharge rate, and whatever you are discharging to has to be able to handle it. One problem with the current supertankers is the limited number of locations that can handle extremely high discharge rates, as the fuel has to go into some sort of storage medium, along with the ability to handle such a large ship.

Remember, a cubic meter of water weighs one metric ton. so a discharge rate of 540 Traveller dTons at 14 cubic meters to the dTon means that your ship is carrying at least 7560 tons of liquid, using water as the liquid.
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Last edited by timerover51; September 4th, 2017 at 05:25 PM..
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Old September 4th, 2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
For liquid bulk carriers, that 540 Traveller dTons equates to about 270,000 cubic feet per hour, or a bit over 2,000,000 gallons per hour, rounding 7.5 gallons per cubic foot. An 8 inch terminal pipeline can handle 1,135,000 gallons per day, while the T2 tanker, which could handle 5,922;000 gallons of liquid, could discharge at 4,000 gallons per minute, or 240,000 gallons per hour. You are going to need either a lot of pumps, or some very large ones to make that discharge rate, and whatever you are discharging to has to be able to handle it. One problem with the current supertankers is the limited number of locations that can handle extremely high discharge rates, as the fuel has to go into some sort of storage medium, along with the ability to handle such a large ship.

Remember, a cubic meter of water weighs one metric ton. so a discharge rate of 540 Traveller dTons at 14 cubic meters to the dTon means that your ship is carrying at least 7560 tons of liquid, using water as the liquid.
Just a bit of perspective on Traveller tech, remember those jump drives are getting fed up to 60% of the ship's volume in L-Hyd in 20 minutes, using the CT:HG rules particularly with drop tanks.

We can safely presume some X fraction of the jump drive is specialized pumps and that few ACS will have pump tonnage devoted to their cargo bays, but clearly specialized ships can and would have that pump capacity for rapid turnaround.
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