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  #11  
Old September 4th, 2017, 02:03 PM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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As for OP's question, I would look at the game effect I want and work backwards to a rule and justification that sells to the players.

My mantra is player resource choice and environmental differentiation so they have a sense of place wherever they are.

To achieve that, I would apply modifiers to the tech and starport level to skew time from a baseline, and allow for spending extra to get loaded faster. The idea is that the better the starport facilities and the higher the tech, the faster automation/starport services and cargo tools can get it done.

I think I would want a 'fastest' to be 4 hours, longest 48 hours, mean 24 hours, so that gives us a range.

Let's make it simple, start with 48 hours and subtract.

-1 hour per TL of starport, or the ship if higher or at an E starport.

-24 hours for A starport, dividing in half for each level below
-12 hours for B starport
-6 hours for C starport
-3 hours for D starport
-0 hours, no support at E/X beyond any local contracted assistance
-1 hour per Cr10000 spent per 100 tons cargo for additional expedited services, 24 hour notice required
-1 hour per Cargo Handling skill level of dedicated crew in lieu of starport support

So fastest a native move for an A-15 starport would be 48-(24+15) or 9 hours, a more typical B-12 starport load would be 25 hours, and a D-7 would be 38 hours.
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  #12  
Old September 4th, 2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Having worked in a warehouse, plus time as an Army Supply Officer who still studies logistics, a few comments on your list.

The 30 tons an hour for break-bulk is quite high, unless all of the cargo is palletized and you have a fair amount of material handling equipment. If you have to first palletise the cargo, then you are looking at maybe 30 tons an 8 hour shift.
Not my list, but this is interesting. It does seem that with break-bulk the assumption is the cargo is already on pallets and ready to load.

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For Roll-On/Roll-Off, that is low, unless you have a limited opening allowing only one vehicle at a time to exit. LST unloading times in World War 2 with loaded 2 and a half ton trucks with trailers could be a low as 15 minutes. They did have the motivation of avoiding air attack though.

Container unloading is going to be restricted by how many opening you have to unload them through. If you have 3 or so large unloading doors, you might reach the 180 tons, otherwise, it is going to be slower. Those large Traveller containers are not going to be the easiest things to manage.
I'm thinking of Beowulf or Empress Marava design here. The big issue is going to be unloading doors to move stuff through. As both have under 100 dTons of cargo, it shouldn't be that long to unload them completely. The standard look of the Fat Trader though, it's laid out like a big cargo aircraft, and would easily take RO-RO and containers.

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As for dry bulk cargo and liquid cargo, current unloading times run into thousands of mass tons per hour. For the big Lake bulk carriers of dry cargo, 60,000 tons unloaded in 10 hours is about average. Now, that does include unloading through multiple hatches.

For liquid bulk carriers, that 540 Traveller dTons equates to about 270,000 cubic feet per hour, or a bit over 2,000,000 gallons per hour, rounding 7.5 gallons per cubic foot. An 8 inch terminal pipeline can handle 1,135,000 gallons per day, while the T2 tanker, which could handle 5,922;000 gallons of liquid, could discharge at 4,000 gallons per minute, or 240,000 gallons per hour. You are going to need either a lot of pumps, or some very large ones to make that discharge rate, and whatever you are discharging to has to be able to handle it. One problem with the current supertankers is the limited number of locations that can handle extremely high discharge rates, as the fuel has to go into some sort of storage medium, along with the ability to handle such a large ship.

Remember, a cubic meter of water weighs one metric ton. so a discharge rate of 540 Traveller dTons at 14 cubic meters to the dTon means that your ship is carrying at least 7560 tons of liquid, using water as the liquid.
Considering the size of most Traveller ships, the maximum rate means the cargo bay is empty really quick. Also, your typical PC's ship won't have the setup for bulk cargoes as I see it. More than a few use the cargo bay as an access to things like the engine room or Low Berths.

Pump capacity shouldn't be much of a problem, considering how much Hydrogen gets fed into a power plant. For high capacities, the storage areas are going to be the limitation.

But then, what liquid would you be pumping over 500dtons of frequently unless it's Liquid Hydrogen?
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Old September 4th, 2017, 10:10 PM
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If this helps the Mongoose book Starports give a average transfer time of 5 minutes per dTon.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
Just a bit of perspective on Traveller tech, remember those jump drives are getting fed up to 60% of the ship's volume in L-Hyd in 20 minutes, using the CT:HG rules particularly with drop tanks.

We can safely presume some X fraction of the jump drive is specialized pumps and that few ACS will have pump tonnage devoted to their cargo bays, but clearly specialized ships can and would have that pump capacity for rapid turnaround.
I was bumbling around with this one day, I forget the details. It was one of those drop tank/fuel shuttle threads. It got to the point that on the larger ships, the volume of fuel that had to move was comparable to what goes over Niagra Falls.

There must be some very large pipes in those starships.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
I was bumbling around with this one day, I forget the details. It was one of those drop tank/fuel shuttle threads. It got to the point that on the larger ships, the volume of fuel that had to move was comparable to what goes over Niagra Falls.

There must be some very large pipes in those starships.
That is one reason why I use a "Small Ship" universe. I did the number crunching and did not like the results.

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Originally Posted by MThompson016 View Post
But then, what liquid would you be pumping over 500dtons of frequently unless it's Liquid Hydrogen?
A low population, say under 100,000 that is also Tech 3 to 5 that would be importing liquid fuels for vehicles may be importing a couple of hundred dTons of fuel. That would hold especially true for Water Worlds, with limited land surface.
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