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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #51  
Old December 8th, 2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh View Post
The old tension between law and order and individual rights.

Placing a high value on children has led to bubble-wrap helicopter parenting. The problem with valuing life -- protecting people from harm -- is that it makes for a lousy adventure setting: "Don't slay that monster, it's dangerous!"
Hmm, more like 'you cannot slay this monster outside of the monster hunting season, without a license, and if you do slay it you likely have broken weapons and/or trapping laws too'.

The highpop high LL meme is in a lot of scifi, and is often an explicit reason why characters head to the frontier.

I think it's a relevant distinction to make about the OTU, as what constitutes 'value of life' and how to preserve it differs intrinsically between a frontier world with real monsters, and a highpop hightech planet where the monsters are your fellow citizens if they decide to use the technology for destruction.

Heh, there's one for the LL revision types- tie LL instead to TL, something like TL-7+2d6=LL.
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  #52  
Old December 8th, 2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welsh View Post
Placing a high value on children has led to bubble-wrap helicopter parenting. The problem with valuing life -- protecting people from harm -- is that it makes for a lousy adventure setting: "Don't slay that monster, it's dangerous!"
I'm not so sure that the parent who used the bubble-wrap method value their kids any more than their parent, and others more contemporary, valued their own. That's more of a methodology that's a little dysfunctional and more illustrative of a risk-adverse, or an over-controlling, way of going about trying to raise kids.

That said, and following on from that point, a high law level could be set in order to bubble-wrap a society. Imagine if you will a world, where people live peaceful productive lives, happy in the knowledge that their government and the Social Protection Services will ensure that their physical and emotional safety is always the number-one priority. I'm thinking the Joes without the mind-rays!
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Old December 9th, 2017, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
Hmm, more like 'you cannot slay this monster outside of the monster hunting season, without a license, and if you do slay it you likely have broken weapons and/or trapping laws too'.

The highpop high LL meme is in a lot of scifi, and is often an explicit reason why characters head to the frontier.

I think it's a relevant distinction to make about the OTU, as what constitutes 'value of life' and how to preserve it differs intrinsically between a frontier world with real monsters, and a highpop hightech planet where the monsters are your fellow citizens if they decide to use the technology for destruction.

Heh, there's one for the LL revision types- tie LL instead to TL, something like TL-7+2d6=LL.
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Originally Posted by Ulsyus View Post
I'm not so sure that the parent who used the bubble-wrap method value their kids any more than their parent, and others more contemporary, valued their own. That's more of a methodology that's a little dysfunctional and more illustrative of a risk-adverse, or an over-controlling, way of going about trying to raise kids.

That said, and following on from that point, a high law level could be set in order to bubble-wrap a society. Imagine if you will a world, where people live peaceful productive lives, happy in the knowledge that their government and the Social Protection Services will ensure that their physical and emotional safety is always the number-one priority. I'm thinking the Joes without the mind-rays!
Getting a bit close to current US politics.


I will say the causality link (High Pop ⇒High Law) isn't well established, but the correlation in SF predates the most scientific examination of it - John B Calhoun's "Universe" experiments with rodents in the 1960's and 1970's. (At least 2 dozen - #25 is the most relevant, results published in 1972.)

Calhoun found that, in rodents, easy feed high density leads to colony collapse when population density grows too high, even tho' the resources are readily available to feed, water, and house them all. The collapse included a variety of issues - including violent packs of young non-reproductive males. Which many in the social sciences choose to attribute to a lack of law enforcement upon the mice, and thus feel society will need to enact more laws to cope with more density.

The political issues, however, are linked to several other findings, which I suggest not be discussed here, due to their relevance in US, Canadian, & Australian current politics.
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  #54  
Old December 9th, 2017, 10:47 AM
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The movie Demolition Man had a very protective government - no booze, no sex, no sugar (IIRC) nothing that could hurt the citizens. While played up for comedy, it really is more dystopian and controlling. High law level there as well (although it has been 20+ years since I saw it)
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Old December 9th, 2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Getting a bit close to current US politics.
Sorry, had no idea about that. I was basing it more on an article about bubble-wrap/helicopter parenting I'd seen from another country, from which I drew some of my knowledge.

The Will Smith "I, Robot" has a similar meme - the robots attempt to take over in order to ensure that they protect humans, as they're required, but from themselves. Not an unreasonable take on it as long as the safeties are left off.
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