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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:07 PM
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Default K'kree Ships and Vehicles

I have been looking at the K'kree in another respect, although not really a fan of intelligent herbivores, but I have gotten to thinking about how large their ships and vehicles would have to be. Garnet Wolseley's The Soldier's Pocket Book for Field Service, 1886 edition allows for 3' x 10' for a horse in rank, at least 1200 cubic feet per horse for stables, and stalls of at least 4' 5" X 9'. At 550 kilograms/1212 pounds, a K'kree would count as a draught horse, but should require a bit more room as they are also hexapodal.

Given they are the size of a large horse, their ships and vehicles are going to have to be sized accordingly. Rounding for Traveller, each K'kree should take up at least two of the standard 1.5 X 1.5 meter squares simply standing. Aside from needing probably more height, corridors should be about 3 squares wide, while staterooms, to allow for turning around and movement inside would appear to need to be about 5 or 6 squares wide and also long, so much larger than what a human needs.

As I do not have the K'ree alien module, I was wondering how much this is reflected in their vehicles and ships.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 09:21 PM
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The general rules were 6x the normal human space for staterooms, crew spaces or access space. In addition to being physically larger than humans, the K'kree are claustrophobic, though I think this is more cultural than really a mental limitation.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 11:33 PM
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I'm not expert on the K'Kree (though I did want to run a campaign with a crazy loner K'Kree char) but I believe they don't share the same range of spacecraft that other races have, simply because of who/what they are.

They wouldn't have single-crew fighters, or even vehicles. I doubt they'd have vehicles with less than, say, 4 peeps, because of their herd mentality. Their society is constructed about the herd and those separating form the herd are crazy. I don't see why they'd expect 1 peep to go into battle, or exploring, or down to the shops, with this mentality, if they could help it.

Their cities, spacecraft, buildings and everything else would be designed with this in mind. So the equivalent of a small fighting vessel might actually be very large by human standards and actually classified as a frigate or something.

If they were building a "fighter", it might be robotic or a drone, controlled remotely.

With regards to furnishings and staterooms, they would probably share much larger rooms and not have the same attitude toward partitioning space as humans do. A single stateroom seems ridiculous for K'Kree, but a large "Stable" like room, housing ten or twenty might not be.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GRNDL View Post
I'm not expert on the K'Kree (though I did want to run a campaign with a crazy loner K'Kree char) but I believe they don't share the same range of spacecraft that other races have, simply because of who/what they are.

They wouldn't have single-crew fighters, or even vehicles. I doubt they'd have vehicles with less than, say, 4 peeps, because of their herd mentality. Their society is constructed about the herd and those separating form the herd are crazy. I don't see why they'd expect 1 peep to go into battle, or exploring, or down to the shops, with this mentality, if they could help it.

Their cities, spacecraft, buildings and everything else would be designed with this in mind. So the equivalent of a small fighting vessel might actually be very large by human standards and actually classified as a frigate or something.

If they were building a "fighter", it might be robotic or a drone, controlled remotely.

With regards to furnishings and staterooms, they would probably share much larger rooms and not have the same attitude toward partitioning space as humans do. A single stateroom seems ridiculous for K'Kree, but a large "Stable" like room, housing ten or twenty might not be.
You have most of that right.

CT Alien Module 2: K'Kree, notes K'Kree fighters and combat vehicles. K'Kree combat vehicle crews and fighter crews require the "enclosure" skill to be able to endure long periods in enclosed environments (including vac suits!) with so few comrades around them. K'Kree capable of living that life are valued soldiers - and considered dangerously eccentric by their peers (and often are).

"The cavalry service is regarded with a mixture of scorn and awe; vehicle crewmen are generally thought of as lunatics and permitted eccentricities of all sorts that would be grounds for censure in any other arm of the service. The same is true of fighter pilots in the Navy; both breeds are extremely rare, and therefore valued even though their mental stability is considered suspect by most."

By comparison, the more typical K'Kree minimum unit size is the 50-man "infantry" platoon - except for the specially trained eccentrics, K'Kree don't like fighting in groups smaller than that.

The K'Kree have no equivalent of the 10 dT fighter, but they do have the other types of small craft, and pilots who can fly them, althought - even with Enclosure skill - they can't handle more than a few hours in them. Alien Module 2 offers modification to ship design rules that give a glimpse into K'Kree needs: a "stateroom" is 48 dT (and private staterooms are unheard of - several staterooms join into one communal living space), a small craft stateroom is 24 dT (the smallest volume of space that an Enclosure-trained K'Kree can endure for more than 10 hours or so), and a small craft couch is 4 dT (and, "usually at least two are required").

(Why am I thinking that K'Kree interior decorating for ships would lean heavily on mirrors? )

Given that, it is remotely possible to design a 20dT fighter, but the fighter will be a short-range, short-duration fighter. Something able to patrol for long duration would probably be in the 80-95 dT range. Armored vehicles, probably the smallest is no smaller than that 20 dT fighter - which itself is twice the size of an Imperial tank - and that would be a 2-"person" scout-car design. Full-fledged tanks would run to twice that.

The smallest K'Kree ship is 1000 dT - they won't build smaller than that for interstellar travel. It's one thing to be shooting through space with only you, your bud, and 56 dT of volume to live in; it's quite another to be cut off from the universe in jump space with only the two of you and that tiny bit of space.

Per CT Book 8: Robots, K'Kree robotic tech at TL13 is primitive by Imperial standards - and Imperial standards aren't world-shaking. K'Kree robots tend to be used for menial tasks and lack the AI to handle combat roles independently. K'Kree drone fighters don't exist. They do have pretty sophisticated remote-control weapons systems but, given the distances involved in space warfare, remote control fighters are not practical. For example, K'Kree use remote control technology for some ship's boats, freeing merchants from the need to find and train K'Kree who can handle that nerve-wracking job, but per CT Alien Module 2, the boats are "clumsier than a vessel under direct control," and are piloted with a -2 penalty to skill.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 02:16 AM
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their ships are big open spaces with Soil & Plants topped with transparent domes that are Holoreactive so they can project artificial sky's. Bridges are just a collection of work stations in a convenient place, Battle Bridges do have damage mitigation screens. work in engineering spaces is carried out by remotes. as far as Small Craft, life boats nothing displacing under 95 tons packed with cold sleep births and run by a model/5 computer.

Ships smaller than 1KT displacement are also un-K'Kreed run by Model/5 Computers.

At least according Alien Module 2: K'Kree

Edit: each K'Kree also requires 48 Displacement tons of space (Half that if all present have the Enclosure Skill), Life support costs 3000cr for every two weeks.

Last edited by Sir Brad; April 25th, 2013 at 02:33 AM..
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Old April 25th, 2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Brad View Post
their ships are big open spaces with Soil & Plants topped with transparent domes that are Holoreactive so they can project artificial sky's. Bridges are just a collection of work stations in a convenient place, Battle Bridges do have damage mitigation screens. work in engineering spaces is carried out by remotes. as far as Small Craft, life boats nothing displacing under 95 tons packed with cold sleep births and run by a model/5 computer.

Ships smaller than 1KT displacement are also un-K'Kreed run by Model/5 Computers.

At least according Alien Module 2: K'Kree

Edit: each K'Kree also requires 48 Displacement tons of space (Half that if all present have the Enclosure Skill), Life support costs 3000cr for every two weeks.
Hmmm, I would put that life support cost as too low. For a human stateroom the life support cost is 1,000 credits every two weeks. Given that the K'kree weigh 550 kilograms, have two hearts, and are hexapodal, I would put oxygen consumption at about 7 times that of a human, figuring a human at about 80 kilograms. Add it that the K'kree are herbivores, which means more waste to deal with, and probably are going to need somewhere between 6 to 8 gallons of water a day minimum, based on the consumption of a horse, I would put life support costs at more like 5,000 to 8,000 credits per two weeks.

Based on the comments regarding claustrophobia-like problems, armored vehicles are going to be few and far between for the K'kree as well, and the ones that the have are going to be very large.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:32 PM
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I haven't really thought about it much until I read this post, but the K'Kree must eat some amazing veggies. One of the reasons why we as mammals have developed in the way we have is because we had access to high calorie/protein food that allowed our brains to grow and stimulate us mentally on how to acquire (eating predator's kills, avoiding said predators, opportunistic eating, eventually hunting, etc) coupled with getting all the nutrition we needed without a large amount of dedicated time, which gave us time to do other things. K'Kree being devout vegans, they'd need to spend a lot of time eating unless their veggies were packed with nutrients, which a lot of Terran (not sure about Vilani, etc) veggies don't. Terran herbivores spend a great deal of time collecting and eating food.

Not much of a point here, just an aside. Back to your regular programming.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Hmmm, I would put that life support cost as too low. For a human stateroom the life support cost is 1,000 credits every two weeks. Given that the K'kree weigh 550 kilograms, have two hearts, and are hexapodal, I would put oxygen consumption at about 7 times that of a human, figuring a human at about 80 kilograms. Add it that the K'kree are herbivores, which means more waste to deal with, and probably are going to need somewhere between 6 to 8 gallons of water a day minimum, based on the consumption of a horse, I would put life support costs at more like 5,000 to 8,000 credits per two weeks.

Based on the comments regarding claustrophobia-like problems, armored vehicles are going to be few and far between for the K'kree as well, and the ones that the have are going to be very large.
just repeating whats in AM:2, Engineering is also under the floor when they need to do work that can't be done by remotes they pull up the floor/roof so they can get at the work that needs doing.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 01:33 AM
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... as far as Small Craft, life boats nothing displacing under 95 tons packed with cold sleep births and run by a model/5 computer.

Ships smaller than 1KT displacement are also un-K'Kreed run by Model/5 Computers.

At least according Alien Module 2: K'Kree
...
Didn't I just quote Alien Module 2: K'Kree talking about fighter pilots?
AND small craft couches??
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Old April 26th, 2013, 01:07 PM
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If each K'kree requires a minimum of 24 Traveller displacement tons of enclosed space, assuming the Enclosure skill, then the minimum size of K'kree vehicle that I come up with is about 24 meter long, 4.5 meters wide, and 3 meters high. That is about the size of a World War 2 PT boat, and that is for ONE K'kree! That is not a small target by any means of you are talking ground vehicles. What that also means is that every K'kree vehicle is going to be expensive to produce and therefore is a high-value target for destruction.

As a corollary, the lack of ability to deal with enclosed space means that either all K'kree underground mines are handled by robots or human-sized servants, or they have a LOT of strip mining going on. The need for human or equivalent servants/slaves should make for K'kree servant or slave raids, and also extensive human-type servant breeding efforts.

As for K'kree rations, that is something I am working on, along with Vargr, Aslan, and Droyne rations.
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