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  #1  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 03:37 AM
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Exactly how do GLs work? Are they spring loaded devices?

I ask because I was contemplating an EMG (Gauss) GL, and was wondering what kind of impact it would have on a battlefield environment, and subsequently the game. [img]graemlins/file_22.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 04:41 AM
mbrinkhues mbrinkhues is offline
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No, they normally work with chemical propellants and have actually been around since the blackpowder days. A GL is basically a small caliber mortar firing a very slow(1), fat round using a High-Low pressure system where the cartridge acts as a part of the barrel.

The "Spring loaded" part creeps up occasionally with the PIAT, a british Anti Tank grenade launcher that used a very heavy spring to ignite the propelling charge

This side here has a nice overview and on this subpage tals briefly about the High-Low pressure system commonly used in modern GL


(1) 80m/s for a 40x46 from an M203 or HK69 compare to a .45ACP is at 290m/s or a 7.62x51N of the M60 or G3 at 790m/s
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:00 PM
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Gauss launching, AFAIK, would work just fine. But grenades are so heavy that they have to have low muzzle velocity to keep recoil managable, so I don't know what you'd gain with a gauss launch. A bit quieter, but the GL is already one of the quietest weapons on the batlefield (that is, the launcher, not the grenade).
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:42 PM
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Thanks guys. I wasn't sure if maybe a Gauss version would increase the punch or something. Ah well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks again.
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Old March 3rd, 2007, 04:02 PM
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The "punch" of a grenade normally comes from the explosive filler. KE-Grenades(solid) grenades are used in some riot rounds and in close-combat "shotgun" rounds (Are those still in service btw?)

What both a Gauss or an Electro-Thermal weapon can do is change the launch from a single sharp punch to a slightly longer, smoother acceleration. With that one might be abel to get a bit more muzzle velocity for a longer range and/or less reaction to side wind.

Depending on the battery weight a Gauss-Launcher might give a lighter/shorter round (dropping propellant) and allowing for more rounds to be carried or for a "10mm caseless battle rifle in an over/unter configuration with a 4-shot pump action grenade launcher".

Just in case you end up on a barely terraformed colonie with a civilian, a kid, a green LT and a representative of the MegaCorp.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
The "Spring loaded" part creeps up occasionally with the PIAT, a british Anti Tank grenade launcher that used a very heavy spring to ignite the propelling charge

(1) 80m/s for a 40x46 from an M203 or HK69 compare to a .45ACP is at 290m/s or a 7.62x51N of the M60 or G3 at 790m/s
Thanks for a good post. I wondered about the Piat as people always talked about it as spring-driven and I always thought that ought to really beat the heck out of your shoulder to lob a round any distance. Your explanation clarifies things greatly.

Wonder how 80 m/s compares to a bow or crossbow's 'muzzle velocity' (the launch speed of an arrow or of a bolt from a crossbow)?
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:35 PM
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Gauss may offer some engineering challenges though. You'd have to be careful your big electromagnetic pulse didn't induce a current into the detonators. I'm not sure this could happen, but I'd be darn careful during development. This might mean your detonators have to be made of non-metallic components.

The 'even push' vs. the 'sharp kick' might make accuracy better at range and if you could squeeze out a bit more range, you might be able to shoot out towards 500m and hit point targets further out than the M-79s 150m.

Where a gauss acceleration could make a difference would be cannister (buckshot) or flechette (long needle penetrator) rounds. These would have some reliance on KE to do damage.

The problem is, if you try pushing out a big buckshot or flechette package at higher velocity, the aggregate impulse to the user is sizeable. The interesting thing about Gauss is you could probably control the kick and the ballistics. Marry it to a computer sight and a tunable launch power and you can perform battery management. If your target is 150m away, you don't need to use 500m worth of juice. The electronic sight handles the magic (lase target, this produces a target point in the sight at current launch power setting, pull trigger or press firing stud). Thus you could get more shots out of a battery, which has some logistical benefits.

You could also then, if loaded with KE rounds, allow and overpowered launch (no fear of barrel explosion) and fire the flechettes or buckshot faster than you'd firea normal grenade to obtain more damage/penetration. This might give a negative accuracy DM (especially at range) due to the higher kick, but might actually make more dangerous rounds.

Note also that the gauss version may be detectable with energy sensors - not something that chemical explosive version suffers from. Conversely, the chemical explosive version might have some muzzle flash or thermal signature that could be trackedand the Gauss might not. So it might alter the sorts of sensors the enemy needs to locate the Grenadier.

Lastly, if you are using Gauss launch, you could either have smaller rounds (same payload, no propellant) or larger payloads (but it requires more launch force). This might mean you could make bigger buckshot loads or bigger HE or WP loads.

The downside of all this is that in the chemical propellant situation, each round is its own power source. For Gauss, you have to have a battery. Logistically, you have to also be able to recharge or change the battery. I'm not sure at what TL battery tech reaches a point where energy supplied this way is better than energy supplied via equivalent TL chemical explosives.... maybe never.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 05:50 AM
mbrinkhues mbrinkhues is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaladorn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
The "Spring loaded" part creeps up occasionally with the PIAT, a british Anti Tank grenade launcher that used a very heavy spring to ignite the propelling charge

(1) 80m/s for a 40x46 from an M203 or HK69 compare to a .45ACP is at 290m/s or a 7.62x51N of the M60 or G3 at 790m/s
Thanks for a good post. I wondered about the Piat as people always talked about it as spring-driven and I always thought that ought to really beat the heck out of your shoulder to lob a round any distance. Your explanation clarifies things greatly.

Wonder how 80 m/s compares to a bow or crossbow's 'muzzle velocity' (the launch speed of an arrow or of a bolt from a crossbow)?
</font>[/QUOTE]They are about the same at least for modern hunting crossbows (250fps) but the average Grenade is round-headed vs. the sharp needelpoint of a bolt and that reduces penetration.
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Old March 7th, 2007, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:

or for a "10mm caseless battle rifle in an over/unter configuration with a 4-shot pump action grenade launcher".

Just in case you end up on a barely terraformed colonie with a civilian, a kid, a green LT and a representative of the MegaCorp.
He he, I just checked that one out of the library.
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