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  #21  
Old February 24th, 2008, 02:23 AM
sablewyvern sablewyvern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
That's a false dichotomy. There is middle ground between treating piracy as free advertising and the extremes you listed as the alternative. Including, for instance, the policy that Hunter has adopted. The Traveller CD-ROMs are not crippleware, and Hunter's policy of forbidding the use of his site to promote piracy equates piracy with neither bag-snatching nor sniping at civilians.
Are you actually reading my posts?

Like, the bit where I mention explaining to customers why it's in their interests to pay for products they gain benefit from, or where I agree with Hunter's "Not on CoTI" policy?

My point is that piracy is here, and it's here to stay. The market needs to adapt, and consumers need to be given incentives to pay for product. This includes making access to the product through normal channels convenient, adding value to electronic and hard-copy purchases, and educating customers on the benefits of paying for products. At no point have I argued for ignoring piracy completely, or argued that Hunter is instituting poor policies. Beyond his comment that he does not support piracy, and won't allow CoTI to facilitate it, I have no idea what his policies are regarding potential piracy, so I can't comment specifically on those policies, even if I wanted to.

Last edited by sablewyvern; February 24th, 2008 at 02:32 AM..
  #22  
Old February 24th, 2008, 11:51 PM
Agemegos Agemegos is offline
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Originally Posted by sablewyvern View Post
Are you actually reading my posts?
Well, I have to admit that my eyes glaze over a bit at such straw men as
"We can say with certainly that idiotic (ie, all) DRM schemes serve only to create pirates and reduce sales -- since pirates aren't downloading DRM crippled versions in the first place, and plenty of people will be driven away by crippled products they're being asked to pay for."
And
"Fighting piracy by crippling PDFs with DRM, placing dangerou rootkits on CDs, refusing to install if a virtual CD is present, or forcing paying customers to watch hyperbolic diatribes equating copyright infringment to auto theft and bag snatching from old ladies is not the answer."
Is there a dangerous rootkit on the Traveller CD?
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  #23  
Old February 25th, 2008, 01:33 AM
sablewyvern sablewyvern is offline
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Seriously, where are you getting this stuff from?

As I have stated, I am in no position to comment on anti-piracy measures on any Traveller products distributed, produced or authored by Hunter, because I have no idea what measures, if any, he employs.

Given that, the "straw men" you refer to (which are actually very real concerns in the wider scope of piracy in general) are clearly not meant to be comments of the anti-piracy measures Hunter employs.

Congratulations, you can use the terms "false dichotomy" and "straw man". They're not much good if you're responding to some imaginary argument that I'm not making, however.
  #24  
Old February 25th, 2008, 01:58 AM
Agemegos Agemegos is offline
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Originally Posted by sablewyvern View Post
Seriously, where are you getting this stuff from?
Copy and paste out of your previous post, #19 in this thread.
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  #25  
Old February 25th, 2008, 02:21 AM
sablewyvern sablewyvern is offline
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Yes, I know I said it.

Let me rephrase:

Why do you refuse to read it in the context which I have made clear it was intended to have? I have stated multiple times now that those comments were not designed to be interpreted as criticisms of the Traveller CD. Any such interpretation would in fact be ludicrous, since most of the copy protection schemes I mention have nothing to do with PDF files.

I can only assume, based on your last post, that you are willfully minsinterpreting even my most basic questions and comments. You accuse me of presenting a false dichotomy when I advocate seeking a middle ground, you misrepresent my position in order to accuse me of making straw men, and then completely ignore yet another attempt to clarify my position and instead respond with a pointlessly glib remark.

That being the case, I see no point in attempting to engage in further discussion with you.

Last edited by sablewyvern; February 25th, 2008 at 02:30 AM..
  #26  
Old February 25th, 2008, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Well, I have to admit that my eyes glaze over a bit at such straw men as
"We can say with certainly that idiotic (ie, all) DRM schemes serve only to create pirates and reduce sales -- since pirates aren't downloading DRM crippled versions in the first place, and plenty of people will be driven away by crippled products they're being asked to pay for."
And
"Fighting piracy by crippling PDFs with DRM, placing dangerou rootkits on CDs, refusing to install if a virtual CD is present, or forcing paying customers to watch hyperbolic diatribes equating copyright infringment to auto theft and bag snatching from old ladies is not the answer."
Well to a degree I agree with him. Protection schemes that inconvenience the user are not a good thing. Using DRM on PDFs was not successful at all and most certainly did keep many from purchasing PDFs that used it.


Quote:
Is there a dangerous rootkit on the Traveller CD?
Here I have to agree with Sablewyvern that you are taking his comments out of context. He certainly didn't imply anything of the sort that I can see.
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  #27  
Old February 25th, 2008, 05:01 AM
Agemegos Agemegos is offline
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Originally Posted by hunter View Post
Here I have to agree with Sablewyvern that you are taking his comments out of context. He certainly didn't imply anything of the sort that I can see.
No, but his off-topic political soapboxing did make my eyes glaze over. DRM and unhinged parallels with bag-snatching have got nothing to do with pirate copies of the Traveller CD. At best, any mention of those would be an irrelevant distraction. In a debate it is two fallacies in one. He should never have mentioned them.

Sablewyvern wanted a debate. In a debate you cop hell for crap like that.
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Last edited by Agemegos; February 25th, 2008 at 05:13 AM..
  #28  
Old February 25th, 2008, 05:10 AM
Agemegos Agemegos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sablewyvern View Post
Why do you refuse to read it in the context which I have made clear it was intended to have?
Because I think that even taking that context into account it is fallacious argument.
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  #29  
Old February 25th, 2008, 05:39 AM
sablewyvern sablewyvern is offline
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*Sigh*

Here is Hunter indicating that he his happy for the thread to be opened up for wider debate on the piracy issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
You are correct. Note that I do not agree with your position, but I have no problem with the discussion (unless of course it degrades into a flame war).
Here is the opening of my first post once I decide to take him up on this offer (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally Posted by sablewyvern
Since Hunter has green-lit general discussion, here's my 2c:
You will note, if you bother to actually read the thread, that prior to that point, I had kept my opinions limited to the original topic, regarding piracy of the Traveller CD and Hunter's ruling regarding piracy on CoTI.

And, that's it. Since you refuse to actually address the points I raise, and simply want to misrepresent my position or argue about whether I have the right to present an opinion in the first place, I really am done wasting my time talking to you.

Last edited by sablewyvern; February 25th, 2008 at 05:45 AM..
  #30  
Old February 25th, 2008, 06:34 AM
Agemegos Agemegos is offline
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Originally Posted by sablewyvern View Post
I really am done wasting my time talking to you.
You started wasting your time when you tried to brush away the existence of a multi-billion dollar DVD and music CD pirating industry as a fantasy or lie because your experience is too limited to take in any encounters with it. I've seen shops full of pirated IP: pirate copies of movies and music CDs for which legal copies were available--at three to six times the price. If your experience is that no-one buys this stuff, that just means that you have to get out more.
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