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  #111  
Old June 29th, 2019, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Canonically, Gold is worth Cr10/gram (about Cr283.5 per ounce, somewhere around).
Do you have a source for that figure?
Is it from the T20 Commodities Table for Speculative Cargo or another source?
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  #112  
Old June 29th, 2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Are you talking about transmuting elements? is any reference to it in Traveller?

ITTR the minerals explotation in several planets is one of the main goals of the MegaCorps, according many adventures or merc tickets where they are patrosn, BTW.

That's the game in the Marches, but could be that's because they are feeding a LOT of TL6-11 planets and it's cheaper then the whole TL edifice to support transmutation.
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  #113  
Old June 29th, 2019, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
Do you have a source for that figure?
Is it from the T20 Commodities Table for Speculative Cargo or another source?
The only reference I have comes from MT:HT (page 50), where, when refering to spice currency, it talks about Cr 300 gold coins weighting 30 g (so consistent with Aramis' numbers).

But this not alredy 3I...
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  #114  
Old June 30th, 2019, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Canonically, Gold is worth Cr10/gram (about Cr283.5 per ounce, somewhere around). It has industrial and decorative uses, and it's clear that transmuting isn't small scale practical until about TL18, given the size of damper units it's industrial scale.
Yup, it is something that only specialist factories are going to do, there will be no maker based transmutation until way above TL16.
By TL13 damper projectors are battlefield technology and are smaller than the earlier TL12 ship and city mounted stuff. 84 ton mass and 6 displacement ton volume is not exactly huge for an industrial damper, the power requirement is 500MW.

Alternatively all it could require is modified damper box technology at the pinch point of your elemental fusion.

The process is cheap fusion energy heats the stuff you want to fuse to a plasma, you use electromagnetic and gravitic fields to accelerate it direct it and squeeze it, and then use the damper component to catalyse the nuclear fusion reaction. Note this is an endothermic process for elements above iron (and some isotopes of lower mas number elements but its a good rule of thumb).

So - power plant, plasma generator, plasma conduits and flow apparatus, accelerators and pinch point, damper field, lots of electromagnets and grav plates, not to mention computer and controls, That little lot is going to have quite a price tag - it may be a lot cheaper to just get in a seeker and go find El Dorado...

Quote:
Damper Boxes (TL12) don't prevent decay, just slow it. Throwing extra protons at the contents may or may not stick them, and probably won't prevent rapid decomposition of the nucleus if the energy isn't JUST right.
Nuclear stability is something we understand very well at our TL. We know the ratio of protons to neutrons to give stable or unstable isotopes of elements. We even transmute elements in particle accelerators and in nuclear reactor experiments.
This tech may actually allow us to create more stable isotopes of elements that nature can not.

Quote:
I agree that it's probably doable at TL13, but I suspect it's not commercially viable until TL15 or 16...
Commercial viability will depend on juggling two factors:
cost of obtaining element by transmutation vs cost of obtaining element by resource exploitation.
IMTU I would limit it to the higher TLs as you suggest to maintain a more stable economy, but with factories producing expensive stable transmuted elements for specialist applications.
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  #115  
Old June 30th, 2019, 03:50 PM
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I would have it's value vary widely over known space, while trading over relatively narrow margins locally, say within a subsector. A subsector with an abundance of rich gold bearing bodies would have a pretty low price that would extend a "short" distance around. A GM could be pretty arbitrary within such general bounds. As with any commodity, costs of extraction and transport will largely indicate (though not directly determine) its price. When the market price falls below those costs, producers will no longer create a supply, whereupon the price will eventually rise as the existing supply dissipates. Have your intrepid adventurers try to dissipate some of it.

Remote systems would have a "basis" over the price of the gold at its source.

Does your ship captain transport a hold full of gold along the main, making a marginal profit, or does he take a risk and take a shortcut through a pirate infested backwater to cut expenses and make a fortune/ton?

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  #116  
Old June 30th, 2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
Do you have a source for that figure?
Is it from the T20 Commodities Table for Speculative Cargo or another source?
Hard Times, specie currency table.
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  #117  
Old July 8th, 2019, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Canonically, Gold is worth Cr10/gram (about Cr283.5 per ounce, somewhere around). It has industrial and decorative uses, and it's clear that transmuting isn't small scale practical until about TL18, given the size of damper units it's industrial scale.

TL22, a flashlight-sized device can lower the nuclear binding force to dissociate it.

Damper Boxes (TL12) don't prevent decay, just slow it. Throwing extra protons at the contents may or may not stick them, and probably won't prevent rapid decomposition of the nucleus if the energy isn't JUST right.

I agree that it's probably doable at TL13, but I suspect it's not commercially viable until TL15 or 16...


Book 3 T5.10 page 161
"The traditional gold price of Cr1000 per Troy ounce [31
grams] = Cr32 per gram. The ingot has a value of about (32
x 320 = ) Cr10,000."

weirdly enough this also is the same page that equates density with armor and uses gold as an example...

"That is, Density= 8.0 does not require that the
object is constructed of Steel; Density= 19.3 does not require
that the object is made of Gold (although it is constructed so
something very dense).
Armor. If the density selected is identified as Armor, that
assigned Ar= is used in Protection."

Ar= 19.3 Gold
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