Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Random Static > Non-Traveller Gaming

Non-Traveller Gaming A forum specifically for discussing those other games we like to play.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old September 20th, 2019, 01:58 PM
JimMarn's Avatar
JimMarn JimMarn is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,240
Gallery : 0
JimMarn Citizen+JimMarn Citizen+JimMarn Citizen+
Default

Hmmm... I have been using the standard TLs from CT. Is there a change that works better ?

Or should I just keep on using what is in the CT material ?

Thanks.
__________________
'through the thorns to the stars...' Ghost in the Shell Anime.
My Traveller site <- 140 planet surveys, 1645 UWPs, and 1645 world maps
my ATU planet survey links <- links to all surveys
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old September 20th, 2019, 02:22 PM
Maksim-Smelchak's Avatar
Maksim-Smelchak Maksim-Smelchak is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 280
Gallery : 0
Maksim-Smelchak Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMarn View Post
Hmmm... I have been using the standard TLs from CT. Is there a change that works better? Or should I just keep on using what is in the CT material ?

Thanks.
Jim, they all work about the same. However, the details can sometimes be meaningful, but usually not.

The biggest difference is between TL-9 and TL-10... And which one is Interstellar... Some link full fledged jump drives to TL-9 and others to TL-10. Some explain it away by calling the TL-9 versions prototypes... Or that the Vilani had a better TL-9 than the Terrans...

In any practical game, it shouldn't make a difference...

Yet, sometimes we fans get a little silly about the details... LOL

Myself included.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
__________________
Lord Maksim-Smelchak,
Marquis and Master of Sophontology of the Imperial Ministry of Science of the Third Imperium,
Master Traveller Chronicler, Wiki Guy & FFE Chief Gopher
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old September 20th, 2019, 03:07 PM
Bromo33333's Avatar
Bromo33333 Bromo33333 is offline
Peer of the Realm
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 58
Gallery : 0
Bromo33333 Citizen
Send a message via Skype™ to Bromo33333
Default

I have always felt that "Tech Level" is problematic in general but highly useful in setting design. Compounding it would be what a tech level would mean in context of an interstellar empire with solid trading links.

IN Hard Times, they talk about a tech level drop due to collapsing trade, but then talk about tech level as the locally sustainable tech level with the overall TL (13 - 15) being the practical TL commonly available. It can get confusing if you try to think to deep about it (it reminds me of Star Trek discussion about how fast "warp" is, when it was all over the map in the various series, and the time between stars was way too short given warp speeds talked about in the series. So I kind of view it as a sort of backdrop to a game, and itself isn't the source. Same for economics, the math doesn't really work out that well for interstellar trade in context of Imperial incomes. But as a backdrop works fine.
__________________
“The puppeteer unrolled completely. 'Did I hear you call me cute?” ― Larry Niven, Ringworld
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old September 20th, 2019, 05:11 PM
whulorigan's Avatar
« whulorigan » whulorigan is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,588
Gallery : 0
Visit whulorigan's Blog
whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim-Smelchak View Post
I call them hallmarks at the wiki... I've discussed the concept hundreds of times over the years with Traveller fans.

Wayne, I'd love to compare notes with you if you are willing to share. Please contact me or post them....
I'll have to dig thru my notes and see if I can find them ...
__________________
.



WHULorigan (Wayne)

Lord Richard Elruinn Ilendrick Rhovanion of Rhylanor
Count RhovanionSPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-FSir Richard, Knight (Kt)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F
MarquisSPIN 0433 Jone B792785-9Sir Richard Elruinn, Knight (Kt)FORN 0727 Dirli C994422-8
Baronet of Jae TellonaSPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8Knight of Deneb (KD)SPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8
Baron of the Third ImperiumSPIN 3220 Powaza C787566-5Knight of the Third Imperium (KTI)SPIN 3235 Trin A894A96-F
Knight of the Iridium Throne (KIT)CORE 2419 Sevan A544576-A
Richard Elruinn Rhovanion (TAS Member #0008)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F

Other Awards
:
Duke of the Third ImperiumREAV 3209 Kylian BA57742-A
Duke of KhouthCORR 0104 Khouth A8C3999-D
Viscount of AlellSPIN 1706 Alell B56789C–A
Baron of ImlaarDENE 2212 Imlaar D677551-6SEH - For Extreme Heroism @ The Battle of Ruby
Baroness of NorthammonDENE 0921 Northammon B764667-AMCGx2 - For Conspicuous Gallantry @ The Assaults on Dinomn & Denotam

Link: Traveller5 Noble Patents Registry
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old September 20th, 2019, 10:08 PM
Ulsyus's Avatar
« Ulsyus » Ulsyus is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Trailing to Rimward
Posts: 1,484
Gallery : 0
Visit Ulsyus's Blog
Ulsyus Citizen+Ulsyus Citizen+Ulsyus Citizen+
Default

Doesn’t it all depend on the vibe/feel you want your game to have?

If someone wants to play around with development curves & Moore’s Law-ish progression rates, then it should just be purposed to drive sort of game they want, shouldn’t it?

I’ve tweaked them in my campaigns previously, but in the past when I needed fine detail on what was available in a particular star system I used the domain varying rules from the old World Builder’s Handbook.
__________________
Pray assign me any part in the government you please; but remember that no single man can bear the whole burden of Empire

Tiberius Claudius Nero Caesar

_____________________________________________
tc+ mt 23 tne t4 t5 IMTU: ru+ ge 3i c+ au+ as+ so da+
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old September 21st, 2019, 02:40 AM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,977
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

Steampunk seems very prototypish.

Technological progression is very seldom a straight line, especially across the board, so you could think of it as less of a level plain playing field, and more of a landscape with peaks and valleys, where semi conductors are progressing at an astounding rate, and we're still stuck with internal combustion engines.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old September 21st, 2019, 11:49 AM
JimMarn's Avatar
JimMarn JimMarn is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,240
Gallery : 0
JimMarn Citizen+JimMarn Citizen+JimMarn Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim-Smelchak View Post
Jim, they all work about the same. However, the details can sometimes be meaningful, but usually not.

The biggest difference is between TL-9 and TL-10... And which one is Interstellar... Some link full fledged jump drives to TL-9 and others to TL-10. Some explain it away by calling the TL-9 versions prototypes... Or that the Vilani had a better TL-9 than the Terrans...

In any practical game, it shouldn't make a difference...

Yet, sometimes we fans get a little silly about the details... LOL

Myself included.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't done all those UWPs in error.
__________________
'through the thorns to the stars...' Ghost in the Shell Anime.
My Traveller site <- 140 planet surveys, 1645 UWPs, and 1645 world maps
my ATU planet survey links <- links to all surveys
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old September 21st, 2019, 04:33 PM
kilemall kilemall is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,571
Gallery : 0
kilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizen
Default

One other thought- I wouldn't get so hung up on technical progression as experienced on Earth.


Each race of sophonts is likely to go about TL dev at differing rates according to resources, the way their environment shaped their minds, and need.


So to me TL is more a measure of 'what stuff' you will commonly encounter or buy on the planet, not a simulation of their productive capability.


I do think it is worth your while as a ref to figure out roughly how the planet's economy works and what does get made there vs. importing. Part of the local color and 'not in Kansas anymore' we should all be striving for.



A good indicator to use IMO is trade codes. Roughly speaking, if the planet is Non-IND it likely doesn't make anything but export specific goods and vital local supplies doing mostly repair, an IND planet makes EVERYTHING and plenty of it, and planets in-between make some items and not others.


This makes sense, on a planet of 40,000 you'll be lucky to find an air/raft dealership, and probably only a few repair places with parts- just not enough people to sustain the business and supply chain. Get into the millions of people and you start getting a full support ecology, maybe even local manufacture for local conditions (but Soc 9+ would likely import).



Going one step further, for CT you could use the trade codes to price individual items per category. So an air/raft comes in at 20% more on an NI world and 30% less on an I. Similar effects happen between Poor and Rich worlds.


My tweak for individual items would also involve TL difference as a modifier. I would apply the absolute difference as a negative DM in both buying and selling- too high a tech and it's 'magic' may be desirable but unsustainable to maintain, too low and it's more prone to breaking/not as good as current models.


If the planet is NI, then that means it's likely importing everything- then TL ends up being more a straight measure of the value of whatever that planet is exporting. You have a pop 4 TLC planet, there is likely something very desirable being shipped out. That export dries up, maybe the planet reverts to TL7. Maybe that's how you get those planets with billions but low TL, they HAD a business model but changes, bad choices or planetary disasters ruined that earning power.
__________________
YUMV- Your Universe May Vary.
YOMD- Your Opinion May Differ.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
T4 Tech Levels Gadrin T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller 6 July 15th, 2007 12:46 PM
Tech Levels and Culture levels... Spinward Scout The Lone Star 9 February 18th, 2005 08:18 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.