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The Cleon Memorial Library For discussion of Traveller fiction, both official and fan-written. Fan-written drafts are explicitly welcome.

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  #11  
Old December 1st, 2016, 09:34 AM
littleidio littleidio is offline
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This thread took a left turn didn't it?

You guys! With your ways!
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  #12  
Old December 1st, 2016, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by littleidio View Post
This thread took a left turn didn't it?

You guys! With your ways!
Yup.

Now, back to the question. I don't know what good taste is, really, so I'm enlisting people to proof-read my work. Specifically, I'm pulling in parents of the age group I'm writing for. I really want to draw the line and take a couple big steps back away from it so parents feel safe with my writing.

That does not mean the scenes are bland, though. I try to get emotionally involved with the writing and face issues the tweens are facing now. In some ways it's not the subject but how you handle it. As I build emotion and back-story into each scene I want it to be felt more deeply than the last iteration.

Note that everyone in the scene is 12-13. Al is a girl and Wilbur is unconscious, Al's former boyfriend, and likely to die. Not from being Al's boyfriend though.

#####

The impact alarm went off. Jo looked at Mon’s hand in hers, looked at him, and blushed.

“Oh...uh...” Mon’s face turned as red as his hair.

Al laughed as she cradled Wilbur’s head and stroked his hair. “I formally suggest we formally agree that all things done and said in the face of impending gory missile death be formally forgotten and never talked about again. All in favor?”

“Aye!” Mon and Jo said.

“Wait.” Al looked down. Her lips brushed Wilbur's lightly and she sat back up. “Aye.” She whispered.
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  #13  
Old December 1st, 2016, 08:42 PM
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I don't know what good taste is, really
what would you want your kids or younger sister to read.
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  #14  
Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:28 PM
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what would you want your kids or younger sister to read.
Nyah, I'm an only child and my daughter is well into adulthood. :P
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  #15  
Old January 4th, 2018, 11:16 PM
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Yup.

Now, back to the question. I don't know what good taste is, really, so I'm enlisting people to proof-read my work.
It's actually a very pertinent question these days. And, I'm about to go on a long rant here, but I'll try to inject some concision into my commentary.

Sex has a time and place, but Traveller ain't it. Romantic tension is another matter entirely. Interest on the part of both sexes is good. Going beyond that for young minds, is not a good idea.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s when morays were being challenged, but, there was still a conscious reserve to conduct and conversation.

Stepping aside from proclivities, we come into the realm of what is good taste, and I don't think the general undefined but understood criteria has changed, but I do think that non-sexual smut, notably body function humor or "gags" has just gotten out of control in media. And I think keeping that out of Traveller is a good idea.

Traveller, to me, is still that late 1970's cool game with a very late 1970's transitioning into early 80's mystique and feel to it, even though we're here in 2018 talking about it for contemporary audiences and players. And on that line of thought the rule of thumb is that if it's rude, then don't put it in your piece.

Kids allegedly laugh at flatulence humor. Heck, Ben Franklin wrote about it, but what purpose does it serve to put that in your story other than to push someone's buttons--namely the reader? Pick your body function, or pick your rude gesture, or pick your slur. It's just good form not to go there.

You don't want to encourage people acting like so many YouTube confrontational "put down" / fight video personae, because people tend to take that kind of message as it being okay for them to act out in pubic.

Then again, I don't know. Maybe you do. In which case, as per Aptollard, write your own story with your own setting.

I also like and have stuck with Traveller because for all the violence in it, there is a kind of innocence to it, but certainly not a naivete. People get hurt, and scifi properties like Star Wars and Traveller acknowledge that. But people can be jerks, and unless you're telling a story about jerks, what you really want to do is show good ideal behavior.

If you're truly serious about not knowing what good taste is, then I do feel bad for ya. I suspect you have an idea, but are curious as to how far you can push the boundaries. In which case it may be time to rethink what it is you like about this game verse what you want to create for it or for yourself.

Sorry for the long series of posts in the fiction section, but I think these are important issues.

I should probably log off for a while. Thanks for letting me rant. Me --->
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Old January 4th, 2018, 11:35 PM
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Just a quick addendum here; back around 79 through 83 or so, when I was giving a career in media real consideration as a teen, I wanted to take things like Traveller, Starfire, Second Empire, Intruder Alert, ... all those games, and make some good serious scifi that addressed issues like racism, class struggles, sex, poverty, war and whatever else ailed society.

I would have liked to have done that anyway with or without the likes of Traveller, but I think if you put your mind into a state of telling a good story, then whatever comes out will help point you in your direction, or rather the direction that will best suit your creativity.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 07:19 PM
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This is just my opinion. It is not meant to criticize anyone else's opinion.

Allowing any kind of sexual content into one's intellectual property universe is a very slippery slope. It can turn a setting into a sewer very quickly, and then the brand will be tainted. That kind of thing can take years to clean up, if it's even possible. Marc Miller stomped this kind of thing at the very beginning, and in doing so he protected Traveller for 40 years.

Compare this to Eclipse Phase, where there are quite a few mentions of what a hedonist everybody is. In one supplement, there was even a page I wanted to rip out. Is all the content in there pretty much tame to anybody over the age of 20? Yes. Would I give that game to my kids? Never.

Example. I recently re-read Uller Uprising by H. Beam Piper. Throughout the story, a romance develops between the protagonist and a young woman, ending in a passionate kiss. Of course we all know what happened further on in their relationship, but there was just no reason to talk about it.

It seems quaint now, but it's called decorum.

Compare H. Beam Piper's story When in the Course in which a romance develops and Stephen R. Donaldson's book The Real Story, in which the heroine is brutalized again and again. There's a heaviness after reading things like that that just isn't there when reading something that maintains a bit of decorum.

Look at Star Wars. We all know Han and Leia had kids. There was no reason to detail them building the nest for the stork to drop off Kylo Ren (I bet that stork is sorry now). I guess Star Wars is a good way to approach it; plenty of action, but no scenes of Imperial stormtroopers burning to death in their destroyed AT-ATs, even though it's highly likely that happened (yes, I know Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen got burned where they lay, but that happened once and we weren't forced to see them burning alive).

Plenty of passion...

"I love you!"

"I know."

...but no details that we can all guess anyway.

Decorum allows us to admire our heroes and heroines because we're not confronted with the tedious biological details of their lives. We're not forced to skip a few pages while wishing the author would make them get a room.
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  #18  
Old January 31st, 2018, 11:54 AM
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Last I checked, sex wasn't tedious. It's also very human.

I find the prohibition of topics of sexuality in Traveller to be pretty hilarious and immature (mature people can handle adult topics; it's immature people who cannot).

To each, their own. This isn't a universal.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Last I checked, sex wasn't tedious. It's also very human.

I find the prohibition of topics of sexuality in Traveller to be pretty hilarious and immature (mature people can handle adult topics; it's immature people who cannot).

To each, their own. This isn't a universal.
I agree. Sexuality is a part of human nature. Pretending it doesn't exist is the child's solution.

And the hypocrisy when contrasted with depictions of violence is, at this point, almost too obvious to mention.
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Old January 31st, 2018, 08:26 PM
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I agree. Sexuality is a part of human nature. Pretending it doesn't exist is the child's solution.

And the hypocrisy when contrasted with depictions of violence is, at this point, almost too obvious to mention.
Could you cite an example of graphic violence in Traveller so I have an idea of what you are referring to?

I mean, I know that weapons do huge amounts of damage and kill people, but I honestly don't remember a high 'gore factor' in any Traveller material that I have read or in any of the GDW artwork.
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