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  #21  
Old April 20th, 2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Xerxeskingofking View Post
god dammit, now I want to play some star trek RP!
Oh, and if you want a quick, fantastic read, that tells things from the Klingons perspective, then READ THIS BOOK!

John M. Ford's The Final Reflection is a masterwork of Trek fiction. Hell, it's not just a good Trek read, it's one of the best books I've ever read. I love it. (And, I'm not the only one...look at the reviews!)

It was written before The Next Generation came out and developed a whole different take on the Klingons. Personally, I like what Ford did with the race much better than what we see with Worf and the rest.

The FASA game used Ford's book as a base and wrote their Klingons game supplement using the same tropes.

The book is highly recommended.
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  #22  
Old April 20th, 2014, 07:40 PM
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I'll note that FASA Trek is one of the single-most pirated games out there. Right after WEG Star Wars and D&D Original Edition.

There is one major "Didn't watch the footage" error in FASA-Trek that really bugs the ◼◼◼◼ out of me...

it shows commodore as three solid stripes - but commodores on film wear one wide stripe. (we don't see any admirals' stripes clearly - so we can't be certain what they wear in the TOS era).

Also note that Kirk mention of having been at Captain Pike's "promotion to Fleet Captain" implies Fleet Captain as a separate rank from Captain - and would logically be the 3 standard stripes given that Captain is solid-broken-solid.

On the other hand, Lt Tormolen wears a single broken stripe on film, so the Lt.JG insignia is canon.

I just rewatched most of TOS Season 1 - the guys in jumpsuits are in fact enlisted men - but are NOT wearing rank insignia. They're addressed as "Crewman" or "Chief". The female enlisted we see are all yeomen, and are in the same uniform as female ensigns. Very "1960's"...

One of the bases wears the Enterprise Arrowhead; the other wears the HQ rosette.
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  #23  
Old April 20th, 2014, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Also note that Kirk mention of having been at Captain Pike's "promotion to Fleet Captain" implies Fleet Captain as a separate rank from Captain - and would logically be the 3 standard stripes given that Captain is solid-broken-solid.
Maybe, but not necessarily. Fleet Captain could be a position, rather than a rank (not unlike the ship's commander being referred to as "Captain", no matter what rank he actually holds).



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I just rewatched most of TOS Season 1 - the guys in jumpsuits are in fact enlisted men - but are NOT wearing rank insignia. They're addressed as "Crewman" or "Chief". The female enlisted we see are all yeomen, and are in the same uniform as female ensigns. Very "1960's"...
I love uniforms, and I think it's neat to look at the different uniforms of different eras in Starfleet.

I always feel like uniforms exist that we never see, and this is kinda backed up by the uniforms that we see rarely. Like the cadet uniform we see in the episode Shore Leave.



Notice he's got a spiral rosette, as you call it, too--it's just smaller. Or, it's something close.

This lends a little credence to your belief that the assignment badges are attached to fleets or divisions or types of duty. The "star system" or "sun" spiral rosette could mean dirtside (or orbit) duty of a world. That would make sense with all Starbase personnel wearing that symbol.





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One of the bases wears the Enterprise Arrowhead; the other wears the HQ rosette.
I remembered seeing the Arrowhead on a non-Enterprise uniform when I re-watched TOS last year. I coughed it up to a production mistake due to a tight budget and no other badge available, but, again, maybe what you say is correct.

I just know, for years, tons of Trek fans have considered the different badges to mean different ship assignment, and we've all been baffled at Starfleet adopting the Enterprise insignia for the entire fleet.

I'm sure it will be officially retconned at some point to make sense.





Speaking of uniforms, last year I read the first volume of the Star Trek Newspaper Strips (Excellent book! Loved the stories!). It starts off using TMP uniforms, then graduates to the red WoK uniforms (my favorite) in volume two. Though not canonical, the newspaper strips clearly refer to Kirk's uniform in TMP (pictured below) to be a dress uniform. There's even a story where Kirk & Co. are guests by another captain of another Starfleet vessel, and all the department heads from the Enterprise wear a similar uniform to Kirk's.







In a bit of a Trek mood, due to this thread, I read the first issue of the first DC run. I've been told that the DC Trek comics are fantastic, and I've been hoping someone would republish them in omnibus form for a couple of years now. But, tired of waiting on that, I bought the Trek CD-ROM with all the comics on it (though I still prefer hard copies).

In that first issue, which takes places immediately after WoK, there is a new uniform introduced. It's for lower-rank personnel. They wear red tops with deep V necks, not unlike McCoy's uniform pictured here:



Except that these uniforms, besides being red, have no collars like McCoy's pic. Their colored undershirts are shown like in McCoy's pic, though.

There's the WoK Starfleet insignia pin on the left breast, and the wide belt is used. But, the slacks are continued in the red color, not black. They still flair, though, and end in the black boots.

No rank pins are seen on this uniform, and I'm assuming it's a uniform for Ensigns only--as, so far, that is the only rank of character to be seen wearing the uniform (and several Ensigns were shown wearing it).

The design is almost a pre-cursor to the grey and black Starfleet uniforms seen in the TNG movies and later seasons of Deep Space Nine.
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  #24  
Old April 20th, 2014, 08:39 PM
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This is interesting. I started the second issue of the first DC run. The cover shows a date of March, 1984, which is three months before Star Trek III: The Search For Spock premiered in the theaters.

There's a scene with McCoy wondering what Spock meant, in WoK, when he said, "Remember". I'm interested to see if the writers do anything with this before we really find out what Spock meant in TSfS.

Three frames later shows Sulu, in temporary command of the Enterprise, wondering (thought bubble) when Starfleet would give him a ship of his own. This is years before we see that happen in TUC.
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  #25  
Old April 20th, 2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
Maybe, but not necessarily. Fleet Captain could be a position, rather than a rank (not unlike the ship's commander being referred to as "Captain", no matter what rank he actually holds).
Fleet Captain as a position is the argument from "It's USN in Space" - but given that Fleet Captain is an actual rank according to Paramount in TNG & DS9, albeit an alternate rank normally skipped. It appears that, due to overlapping titles (like Branch Admiral McCoy), Starfleet has multiple ranks per grade (much like the US MC and US Army do for enlisted men).

But the useage (and Kirk's deference to Fleet Captain Pike, and the implications in the episode that Pike ranks him - since Kirk's the skipper, if Pike were simply the same Grade, Kirk wouldn't defer to him on board the Enterprise.)

Quote:
I love uniforms, and I think it's neat to look at the different uniforms of different eras in Starfleet.

I always feel like uniforms exist that we never see, and this is kinda backed up by the uniforms that we see rarely. Like the cadet uniform we see in the episode Shore Leave.

This lends a little credence to your belief that the assignment badges are attached to fleets or divisions or types of duty. The "star system" or "sun" spiral rosette could mean dirtside (or orbit) duty of a world. That would make sense with all Starbase personnel wearing that symbol.

I remembered seeing the Arrowhead on a non-Enterprise uniform when I re-watched TOS last year. I coughed it up to a production mistake due to a tight budget and no other badge available, but, again, maybe what you say is correct.

I just know, for years, tons of Trek fans have considered the different badges to mean different ship assignment, and we've all been baffled at Starfleet adopting the Enterprise insignia for the entire fleet.

I'm sure it will be officially retconned at some point to make sense.
Don't hold your breath.

About the only way it's going to get a decent retcon is if someone like Harlan Ellison or JMS gets permission to do a proper reboot.


Quote:
Speaking of uniforms, last year I read the first volume of the Star Trek Newspaper Strips (Excellent book! Loved the stories!). It starts off using TMP uniforms, then graduates to the red WoK uniforms (my favorite) in volume two. Though not canonical, the newspaper strips clearly refer to Kirk's uniform in TMP (pictured below) to be a dress uniform. There's even a story where Kirk & Co. are guests by another captain of another Starfleet vessel, and all the department heads from the Enterprise wear a similar uniform to Kirk's.

I've always liked the TMP uniforms as generally practical. And it's not dubious in any way that the white front is a dress uniform. It's explicitly stated as such. It's a Class A Admiral's Uniform. (and it's paralleled in the Alternate Timeline - the dress is gray, but the admirals' is gray and white, and the cadets in red.)

looking through the It's A Wrap Auction Archive (IAWAA)
The long sleeve single color round collar tunic and matching trousers is also a class A uniform (which is service dress) - in gray, tan, or brown.
The V-neck is class B. Same color trousers, tops in white, gray, tan, brown.
the one-piece jumpsuit is class D
A wrap-jacket version is class C. (Checkov's at IAWAA and Ilia's at IAWAA)


Class B and D are available in both long and short sleeve; class D in long and short trousers.
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  #26  
Old April 20th, 2014, 10:56 PM
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I am Helmsman of a Larson class (I think it's weird and dont know why we just dont use a Suleman Destroyer) that is set in the TOS Pilot Era (The ship just got "phasers" and "photon torpedoes"), and its FASAtrek.

I have to make a sub "lower decks" guy, so Im thinking of a Edward Teller sort of Scientist Ensign.

I just got a third set of Galaxy Class Deckplans, and am thinking of doing some kind of trek game.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
Three frames later shows Sulu, in temporary command of the Enterprise, wondering (thought bubble) when Starfleet would give him a ship of his own. This is years before we see that happen in TUC.
I'm surprised the comic writers didn't read the novel for Wrath of Khan. Sulu was supposed to take command of the Excelsior after they got back from the training cruise, according to the novel. Because of Genesis, everything changed. And in the novel for Search for Spock, Sulu was 'on hold' for the Captaincy.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:38 PM
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I'm surprised the comic writers didn't read the novel for Wrath of Khan. Sulu was supposed to take command of the Excelsior after they got back from the training cruise, according to the novel. Because of Genesis, everything changed. And in the novel for Search for Spock, Sulu was 'on hold' for the Captaincy.
Hmm...I bet they did. That's probably where that thought bubble came from.
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  #29  
Old April 20th, 2014, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Saarthuran View Post
I am Helmsman of a Larson class (I think it's weird and dont know why we just dont use a Suleman Destroyer) that is set in the TOS Pilot Era (The ship just got "phasers" and "photon torpedoes"), and its FASAtrek.

I have to make a sub "lower decks" guy, so Im thinking of a Edward Teller sort of Scientist Ensign.

I just got a third set of Galaxy Class Deckplans, and am thinking of doing some kind of trek game.
If you want a competent lower decks guy, instead make a PO2 or PO1 (Rules are in the Traders expansion).
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  #30  
Old April 21st, 2014, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Spinward Scout View Post
I'm surprised the comic writers didn't read the novel for Wrath of Khan. Sulu was supposed to take command of the Excelsior after they got back from the training cruise, according to the novel. Because of Genesis, everything changed. And in the novel for Search for Spock, Sulu was 'on hold' for the Captaincy.
Had Sulu even been promoted to lt. commander let alone commander at that point? You usually don't get promoted to captain (in Real World navies, that is) until you've served as commander for a while.

That reminds me of one of the little things that's bugged me ever since I got the Enterprise blueprints many many years ago. Both Uhura and Sulu are too low rank (lieutenant) to be head of Communications and, what's Sulu's department, Navigation? And there's a First Officer missing too (Spock is serving as both Science Office and First Officer (Yes, I know the blueprints are not canon, but they make sense)). Maybe the First Officer and the Chief Communication and Chief Navigation officers are all stuck down on the Auxiliary Bridge and can't get out?


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