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  #21  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 12:11 AM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
What I see is for every “X version is the best and I will never change” fan that Hates Mongoose Traveller, there seems to be another rabid “Pro-Mongoose Traveller” fan that takes any observation or criticism as a personal attack on their God, Country and Mother.

This part of the board is dedicated to Mongoose Traveller...and yet ANY time a thread is started about this game someone, be it you. or Supplement Four, or someone, has to engage in threadcrapping. We get it - you don't like Mongoose Traveller. If I did that kind of thing in the CT section there would be holy hell to pay (not that I would anyway, as I like CT well enough). Observation or criticism is one thing...constant repetition of it gets very very old.

Also, exaggerated hyperbole doesn't make you any more right or any more intellectual. Its just tiring.

I fail to understand how anyone could expect a game line that is just being started to have the depth of detail that CT had by 1986, say. This is unrealistic. Sure its going to be less detailed. That's just fine by me; I never used the great majority of that stuff anyway. Others will want that. That's ok..it will happen eventually.

Let's see..kick off a new game line with some obscure corner of Traveller history, like T4 tried to do or with THE most popular era in the game's history. Seems like a fairly easy business decision to me. I'm sure we will eventually see the second Civil War covered and maybe even the New Era (although Avenger has done a fairly good treatment of that as is). Maybe even Mileau 0 someday; I would like that, actually. as in my opinion that era produced the best Traveller adventure I personally have ever ran, The Long Way Home.

As for T20...I was a playtester on T20. Good game...but like all games (yes, even MGT) it has issues. And with QLI being run in the manner it presently is, it had no chance. If T20 had been that successful would there even be a MGT? Maybe not.

THIS is Traveller's best chance to regain its position as the preminent science fiction RPG. If you want to keep playin older versions, fine. Enjoy yourself. But realize that NEW people have to start playing Traveller or it will never get that spot back. MGT will (and is) getting those new people, from all indications.

Allen
  #22  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 03:30 AM
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Compare Supplement 3 with the MgT Spinward Marches - I know which provides the greater setting detail.

A couple more like that and mongoose will have fleshed out the 3rd Imperium setting more than GDW did
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  #23  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 06:11 AM
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The cancellation of ACT was absolutely nothing to do with Mongoose Traveller. Indeed, Mongoose had not begun to make moves towards getting a license at that point.

Marc told me that he was not willing to allow ACT because it would compete with T5. Whatever information anyone has from any source whatsoever to the contrary, fact is that:

ACT was vetoed by Marc Miller specifically because he thought it would compete with T5.


This is coming from the author/prospective publisher of ACT and the reason came from Marc himself. No idea who has said what to the contrary but this is fact straight from the source.
  #24  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DaddyDragon View Post
A fair question, all the way around. But this is essentially the reason. T4 was dead on arrival, even though there were the rare diamonds in its deepest, most troubled "rough ". Mostly because of the timing of its delivery, and helped not at all by its almost complete lack of editorial competence.

But as an RPG gamer, and worse, a 'Traveller', I don't think the brand can afford another poor showing as an armed & xenophobic niche in a niche market of niches. Plus, we need to support our local FLGS if and where they continue to exist. Better to buy another new Traveller product than picking up Turd: The Flushing or some other case of buyers remorse looking for a homeless shelter. Trust me, I have shelves and shelves of those too.

Even if, for the sake of arguement, I happens to be Turd; In Space. All you would get in the future is a slightly polished turd. Now I don't think MGT is a Turd, and neither do those who bought it. I don't think its great, it doesn't suit my playstyle and I think it is presented very poorly. But I want to like it, find the diamond in the rough. But because I haven't liked what I've seen so far I guess I need to hear some encouraging signs. And hearing "buy it/ vote for it because its Traveller" is damning with very faint praise.

I don't know if this is making sense, but it feels faguely off-putting to see it in terms of supporting a "brand" rather than a good game. I play because it feels more alive than Transhuman space or Blue Planet, more "real" than Dragonstar/Dawning star and othe sci-fantasy games; not because I'm a "Traveller". If Traveller sucks, it should die, not live because it was great back in the day. If Traveller flourishes, it should do so because its a good game, not out of misplaced loyalty. Am I wrong??

[The above is meant just for discussion. I don't think MGT is a turd, and I believe the majority of people who bought it bought it because they liked it. Its just that seeing this type of comment and the "vote for Traveller in the ennies to show how united we are" gives me doubts. It is not meant as anti-Traveller. The joke in my sig is a "if you can't laugh at yourself" type dealio.
This ends the thread jack, but I'll still be interested in opinions and might post a poll on the idea of supporting Traveller as a brand. Unless something bright and shiney distracts me.]
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallowglacht View Post
This ends the thread jack, but I'll still be interested in opinions...
Well, I would not buy any Traveller material if I did not see any use for it in
my setting and campaign. In fact, there are lots of Traveller stuff I did not
buy because its content did not convince me. My main reason to buy MGT
was the (in my opinion) excellent character generation system. Had MGT on-
ly been a reprint of CT, I would not have bought it, and I would not have vo-
ted for it.
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  #26  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 08:57 AM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJD View Post
The cancellation of ACT was absolutely nothing to do with Mongoose Traveller. Indeed, Mongoose had not begun to make moves towards getting a license at that point.

Marc told me that he was not willing to allow ACT because it would compete with T5. Whatever information anyone has from any source whatsoever to the contrary, fact is that:

ACT was vetoed by Marc Miller specifically because he thought it would compete with T5.


This is coming from the author/prospective publisher of ACT and the reason came from Marc himself. No idea who has said what to the contrary but this is fact straight from the source.
Understood. I apologize for spreading an inaccuracy.

Allen
  #27  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 09:08 AM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallowglacht View Post
I don't know if this is making sense, but it feels faguely off-putting to see it in terms of supporting a "brand" rather than a good game. I play because it feels more alive than Transhuman space or Blue Planet, more "real" than Dragonstar/Dawning star and othe sci-fantasy games; not because I'm a "Traveller". If Traveller sucks, it should die, not live because it was great back in the day. If Traveller flourishes, it should do so because its a good game, not out of misplaced loyalty. Am I wrong??
I obviously don't agree with your view of the book...but no, you shouldn't support something if you don't like it. Not supporting something does not have to include interjecting negative opinions into discussions that occur on a message board about said game just because you can...and of course I am not saying that you have been doing that. Others have.

Discussion of the style and presentation of MGT is obviously off-topic for this thread but...I myself found it refreshing to read an RPG that didn't resort to annoying graphics, pretentious writing styles and/or bad game fiction to "immerse the reader in the game world". I found MGT to be straightforward and simple, easy to get, and in some ways better written than previous editions. Yes, some of the art is atrocious; I guess the art isn't that important to me. Artists don't come cheap, and the gaming industry as a whole can't afford to pay like magazines or other publications (WotC being an exception). I liked a nice simple black-and-white book.

I support Mongoose Traveller because I like it. It does exactly what I want an edition of Traveller to do. I have run it and its enjoyable.

Allen
  #28  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Allensh View Post
EDIT: Confession time. My initial hostility towards T5 was largely caused by the cancellation of Martin J. Dougherty's Avenger Classic Traveller project which at the time was thought to be due to T5. Information that has come to light since suggests it was really more due to the advent of MGT. ACT was excellent.
Actually, it wasn't. ACT has many more problems than MGT has, and if the choice was between ACT or MGT, I'd jump on MGT and be very, very happy about it.
  #29  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Allensh View Post
This part of the board is dedicated to Mongoose Traveller...and yet ANY time a thread is started about this game someone, be it you. or Supplement Four, or someone, has to engage in threadcrapping.
IMO the thread title invites comparisons between MGT and earlier versions of the game. Additionally, I think it's understandable that the latest version, no matter who publishes it, will be compared to the six major versions which preceded it and that those comments will wind up in the part of the board dedicated to that version. YMM/OV.
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  #30  
Old August 3rd, 2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
What I see is for every “X version is the best and I will never change” fan that Hates Mongoose Traveller, there seems to be another rabid “Pro-Mongoose Traveller” fan that takes any observation or criticism as a personal attack on their God, Country and Mother.
Sorry, but my morning orange juice just came out of my nose.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinward Scout View Post
I haven't seen anyone that specifically wants MGT to fail. I have seen a lot of people very disappointed in it (including myself). It might have a lot of excitement in the sales department, but in the gaming department, it is very lacking. Is it a bad game? Nope.
Spinward echoes what Andrew said and how I feel as well. MGT isn't a "bad" game. It's just not what it could have been. It didn't live up to its opportunity. And, I am disappointed in it because of that.

It's given me no reason to stop playing CT and jump onboard.

That's what I wanted--a reason to stop playing CT.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boulton View Post
Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed - it looks cheap and amateurish, especially compared to something like T20. The layout is dull, and most of the art is ugly or, worse, un-Traveller.
Yes, I am unimpressed with the look of the game as well. I've seen the main rulebook now.

I do like the black covers, the the line and the half arrowhead. That looks "neat". It looks "Traveller".

But, the rest of the book looks like the interior of T4...and that's not good.

I look at Mongoose's Conan game (which I have and use), at all the neat art and "atmosphere" it brings to that universe. And, then I look at MGT, and I wonder how both products could come from the same company.

I'm wondering if part of the reason that MGT is so successful is that each book is less expensive for Mongoose to produce.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Allensh View Post
This part of the board is dedicated to Mongoose Traveller...and yet ANY time a thread is started about this game someone, be it you. or Supplement Four, or someone, has to engage in threadcrapping.
There's not threadcrapping. If you look at the OP, we were answering the question the man posed. Just like you. Our opinion just happens to be on the other side of the line.

If we were fawning fans of MGT, something tells me you wouldn't accuse us of threadcrapping.
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