Who PLAYED IT but doesn't like it. (T4)

CosmicGamer · #1 May 14th, 2009, 03:59 PM

I'm curious. Who has PLAYED T4, not people who have only read about it in forums, play tested it but never played the released version, not people who saw a friends copy, or got a copy someone was going to throw away and gave it a cursory glance, but who has PLAYED T4 with a group of people in person or on-line and what are the things you don't like?

Has the experience caused you to
A) stop playing Traveller all together
B) play a different version of Traveller you own
C) go out and buy a different version of Traveller
D) keep playing - possibly making house rules and not use things you don't like

**robject** · #2 May 14th, 2009, 05:33 PM

I refereed T4 games back when T4 came out, bi-weekly for a bit longer than a year. Several things about it, mostly due to a lack of proper testing, proofing, vetting, what-have-you, caused me to develop a moderate dislike for the game.

Has the experience caused you to
A) stop playing Traveller all together

Of course not.

B) play a different version of Traveller you own

Yes.

C) go out and buy a different version of Traveller

Not as such, no.

D) keep playing - possibly making house rules and not use things you don't like

We tried that, and could mitigate some of T4's problems; however, it turns out that tossing the things I don't like about T4 basically turns the game into CT. In other words, the things T4 added, were added too poorly to be useful to me.

**aramis** · #3 May 14th, 2009, 06:01 PM

I ran T4 for 4 months when it was new.

My players hated the task system; I hated combat, and wasn't too fond of the task system. Ship design was also a major pain.

Went back to MT.

Supplement Four · #4 May 14th, 2009, 06:36 PM

I ran a long, multi-year Traveller campaign, bi-weekly, that started using the MT rules and switched to T4 when it came out.

It was one of my players who did the match and figured out just how broken the T4 task system was. It was my post about this on the TML (since I've always been a task-system geek) that broke out the huge TML flame war over this and led to MWM to bring out his T4.1 task system.

We ended that campaign using T4 (about the time T4's Naval book came out), but we decided we'd never use it again.

At that point, we went back to Classic Traveller and fell in love.

**aramis** · #5 May 14th, 2009, 08:11 PM

It should be noted that we also tried the T4.1 Task system, and it made things worse, not better, in terms of feel of play.

**robject** · #6 May 15th, 2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four

It was one of my players who did the match and figured out just how broken the T4 task system was. It was my post about this on the TML (since I've always been a task-system geek) that broke out the huge TML flame war over this and led to MWM to bring out his T4.1 task system.

I remember seeing the IHTIT (It's Harder Than I Thought) posts in the TML. Good times... from that period of time, I most miss the Famille Spofulam/Ditzie posts from Ian the most.

mike wightman · #7 May 15th, 2009, 02:05 PM

T4 has some really useful stuff hidden away in amongst the dross.

The core rules provide the basis for my house rule's combat system, and I regularly use stuff from the Emperor's Arsenal and the Central Supply Catalogue.

I like the psionics book, pocket empires and imperial squadrons too.

Colin · #8 May 15th, 2009, 07:37 PM

The T4 setting materials were quite good. I especially liked the description of what a TL 12 society would be like. Emperor's Arsenal and Central Supply Catalogue were good too. The rules, um, they sucked. Big time. Oddly enough, though, I liked the starship rules, and have used them quite often. At least until T20 came along.

Supplement Four · #9 May 15th, 2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject

I remember seeing the IHTIT (It's Harder Than I Thought) posts in the TML. Good times...

Well, it was a big flame fest...but I know what ya mean.

I can't remember who came up with the IHTIT rule...was it you? Somebody did, at that time on the TML. It wasn't Marc or Loren. It was one of the regular TML posters. I remember it being a rebuttal post to one of my posts illuminating the flaw in Skill vs. Stat with the T4 system.

And, it looks like it survives to this day. It's still used in T5, correct?

And, it ain't a bad rule for that particular system.

Antony · #10 May 17th, 2009, 04:17 AM

Played it for some time, hated the task system and so did all the players I knew at the time. This version of the game virtually single handedly killed Traveller here. Now we play occassional TNE games.

It is a pity really as T4 had both some of the best supplments such as Pocket Empires and the worst, that one with "crappy" starship deckplans. The proof readers (were there any?) should have been strung up as well. (But that's just my opinion)