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The Cleon Memorial Library For discussion of Traveller fiction, both official and fan-written. Fan-written drafts are explicitly welcome.

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  #21  
Old January 31st, 2018, 10:01 PM
LeperColony LeperColony is offline
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
Could you cite an example of graphic violence in Traveller so I have an idea of what you are referring to?

I mean, I know that weapons do huge amounts of damage and kill people, but I honestly don't remember a high 'gore factor' in any Traveller material that I have read or in any of the GDW artwork.
I didn't mention graphic violence at all, only that violence is depicted far more comfortably than sexuality, and that dichotomy is questionable to me.
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  #22  
Old January 31st, 2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LeperColony View Post
I didn't mention graphic violence at all, only that violence is depicted far more comfortably than sexuality, and that dichotomy is questionable to me.
OK, so where as an example is violence depicted?

It sounded like you perceived this 'dichotomy' in Traveller and I am just trying to find an example so I can understand your point. I recognize a 'zero tolerance' policy for 'procreation' in the Traveller literature [Hiver hand shakes aside]. I just don't recall any violence that was worse than Disney's Snow White or Sleeping Beauty (both rated G) in any of the GDW books.
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  #23  
Old January 31st, 2018, 10:46 PM
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OK, so where as an example is violence depicted?

It sounded like you perceived this 'dichotomy' in Traveller and I am just trying to find an example so I can understand your point. I recognize a 'zero tolerance' policy for 'procreation' in the Traveller literature [Hiver hand shakes aside]. I just don't recall any violence that was worse than Disney's Snow White or Sleeping Beauty (both rated G) in any of the GDW books.
The entire setting has a casual approval of violence. It's one of the core concepts of the game. In fact, if I recall correctly, the only task resolution system of the original LBBs was combat.

Adventures involve combat, the setting details wars. Hard Times and TNE go darker in occasionally hinting at torture, mass crimes (not to mention the death of trillions due to Virus).

You may say the depiction isn't graphic, and that's fair.

But Traveller is comfortable with violence. I don't think that's really arguable.

And of the two, I'm a lot more afraid of an angry man with a gun than a girl with an impractical space suit.
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  #24  
Old January 31st, 2018, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LeperColony View Post
The entire setting has a casual approval of violence. It's one of the core concepts of the game. In fact, if I recall correctly, the only task resolution system of the original LBBs was combat.

Adventures involve combat, the setting details wars. Hard Times and TNE go darker in occasionally hinting at torture, mass crimes (not to mention the death of trillions due to Virus).

You may say the depiction isn't graphic, and that's fair.

But Traveller is comfortable with violence. I don't think that's really arguable.

And of the two, I'm a lot more afraid of an angry man with a gun than a girl with an impractical space suit.
If there are trillions of people, then the game also hints at 'procreation'.

I think the goal is to avoid 'heaving bosoms' purple prose and the bondage fetish references of the "Gor" novels in Traveller. Frankly, there were a lot of books and movies made that employed significant amounts of romance without getting into nudity and the details of biology.

Robin Hood (with Errol Flynn)
The Quiet Man (with John Wayne)
Gone With the Wind (if you can sit through 4 hours, I can't)

... all had 'violence' as adventure without gore and 'romance' without nudity or sex.
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  #25  
Old February 1st, 2018, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
If there are trillions of people, then the game also hints at 'procreation'.

I think the goal is to avoid 'heaving bosoms' purple prose and the bondage fetish references of the "Gor" novels in Traveller. Frankly, there were a lot of books and movies made that employed significant amounts of romance without getting into nudity and the details of biology.

Robin Hood (with Errol Flynn)
The Quiet Man (with John Wayne)
Gone With the Wind (if you can sit through 4 hours, I can't)

... all had 'violence' as adventure without gore and 'romance' without nudity or sex.
Traveller in general is muted in its depictions, of pretty much all things.

But it is irrefutably more comfortable with violence than sexuality. And that's a dichotomy I've never really understood. Or, rather approved of.

Last edited by LeperColony; February 1st, 2018 at 03:57 AM..
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  #26  
Old February 1st, 2018, 10:01 AM
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With sex scenes it may be more a question of editing to maintain pacing, at least in more modern times.

You can acknowledge it happens without going into details.

The author can always release a new edition with deleted scenes.
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  #27  
Old February 1st, 2018, 10:50 AM
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In Zhevra's Dance, the main character uses euphemism in her testimony to her lawyer and his assistant. "Blending pelts" was the cleanest I could approach. But this is a character looking back and then speaking on the topic rather than describing the act as it happened.

Then there is the alien quality. We are assuming that Aslan, Vargr, Darrians, Geonee, et cetera, ad nauseam trading RNA is erotic. It may not be to them. We don't see Hiver romances or graphic displays of handshake techniques. Why are the bipedals censored so?

But in art as well in text, it is possible to "fade to black" and wake up the next morning and still remain euphemistic. It is sad that we have to do this even to Major, alien races too. Humanocentric overlay of viewer and reader expectations.

The Discovery Channel has more maturity than this thread.
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  #28  
Old February 1st, 2018, 12:05 PM
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If you want to write Traveller-based stories, you write by Marc's rules.

If you do not like Marc's rules, do not try to write Traveller-based stories.

Personally, I have no problems with Marc's rules, as that is the sort of fiction that I like.

Could I write a detailed discussion of exactly what happens when a depleted uranium round penetrates a tank? Yes. Would I? No.

Could I write a detailed discussion of exactly what happens to someone about 10 feet away from the "This Side Toward the Enemy" of a Claymore mine or the muzzle of a 12 pound smoothbore Napoleon field piece loaded with a double charge of canister when fired? Again, yes. Would I? Again, no.

Could I write a detailed report of some of the experiments done on human beings by the concentration camp doctors or Japanese Unit 731? Yes. Would I? No, i have a hard enough time sleeping after reading some of the war crime reports, much less trying to write extensively about them.

Gratuitous violence and sex is extremely popular in film and some types of books. I see no reason why Marc should have to pander to those type of tastes. I would rather that he did not.
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Last edited by timerover51; February 1st, 2018 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: Correcting Grammar
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  #29  
Old February 1st, 2018, 06:54 PM
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Yes, and it saves Marc from having to wade through people's poorly written lurve scenes when they send him a manuscript for review.
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