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Old November 1st, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Default Small Craft Crew Book 2 and Book 5

Hello everyone,

While using the HGS application, both v1 and v2, I had to select 3 crew couches for the HG1, pp. 29 - 30, TL-7 9-ton fighter equipped with 3 pulse lasers.

I'm using the books from FFE 001 copyright 2000 2nd printing as my source documents.

The HGS defaults to Book 2 crew rules so I checked the Ship Crews: Gunner rule on p. 16 and Small Craft Fittings p. 17.

Book 2 p. 16 Ship Crews:
Gunner: "One gunner (gunnery skill 1 or better) may be hired per turret on a ship. Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot."

I understand the above to mean that I would only need 1 gunner not 2 since the small craft is armed and has a single turret.

Then I went through the Small Craft section on pp. 17 - 18 and found information that, in my opinion, conflicts with the Ship Crews: Gunner requirements.

Book 2 p. 17 Fittings
"Each small craft except the fighter has two small craft passenger couches installed (the fighter has one)."

"Listed crew for all small craft except the fighter is two: pilot and rider. The craft may be operated by one pilot if desired. The pilot must have ship's boat skill (or may used skill minus one). The rider may be a gunner, a passenger, or a co-pilot. If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapons at -1 skill level."

The two entries above don't match with the requirement per Ship Crews Gunner on page 16.

Since Book 2 has left me confused and the fighter is a HG2 design I went to HG2 Small Craft Crew requirements pp. 34 - 35. Page 35 states: "One or more gunners are optional crew members."

Book 5: HG Small Craft Crew p. 35 states that "One or more gunners are optional crew members."

All the above background brings me to my questions.

1. Does the Small Craft Fittings rule supersede the Ship Crews - Gunner - Armed small craft rule?

2. Since the Fighter is an HG design wouldn't the Book 5 Small Crew requirements supersede the Book 2 requirements?
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snrdg082102 View Post
Hello everyone,

While using the HGS application, both v1 and v2, I had to select 3 crew couches for the HG1, pp. 29 - 30, TL-7 9-ton fighter equipped with 3 pulse lasers.

I'm using the books from FFE 001 copyright 2000 2nd printing as my source documents.

The HGS defaults to Book 2 crew rules so I checked the Ship Crews: Gunner rule on p. 16 and Small Craft Fittings p. 17.

Book 2 p. 16 Ship Crews:
Gunner: "One gunner (gunnery skill 1 or better) may be hired per turret on a ship. Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot."

I understand the above to mean that I would only need 1 gunner not 2 since the small craft is armed and has a single turret.

Then I went through the Small Craft section on pp. 17 - 18 and found information that, in my opinion, conflicts with the Ship Crews: Gunner requirements.

Book 2 p. 17 Fittings
"Each small craft except the fighter has two small craft passenger couches installed (the fighter has one)."

"Listed crew for all small craft except the fighter is two: pilot and rider. The craft may be operated by one pilot if desired. The pilot must have ship's boat skill (or may used skill minus one). The rider may be a gunner, a passenger, or a co-pilot. If the craft is armed, but carries no gunner, the pilot may fire the weapons at -1 skill level."

The two entries above don't match with the requirement per Ship Crews Gunner on page 16.

Since Book 2 has left me confused and the fighter is a HG2 design I went to HG2 Small Craft Crew requirements pp. 34 - 35. Page 35 states: "One or more gunners are optional crew members."

Book 5: HG Small Craft Crew p. 35 states that "One or more gunners are optional crew members."

All the above background brings me to my questions.

1. Does the Small Craft Fittings rule supersede the Ship Crews - Gunner - Armed small craft rule?

2. Since the Fighter is an HG design wouldn't the Book 5 Small Crew requirements supersede the Book 2 requirements?
Good evening Tom

I don't see where's the problem about all those rules. All of them say that the gunner is optional, except in the case of the fighter, where only one crewmemeber is needed.

If no gunner is in the craft, the pilot may fire its weapons (if any) with a -1 to his/her skill (as rules for multiple positions for one crewmwmber state, in page 16 B2. Also note that if those rules are applied, Pilot skill should also be at -1), assuming that he has remote controls in the cockpit (I guess).

In the case of the fighter, being a special one and having its weapons fixed, when we played CT (house rules, not cannon at all), we used Pilot skill both for piloting and firing, assuming that the critical factor for aiming the gun was rightly positioning the craft. This was coherent (IMO and that of my playing group) with the fact that Flight characters in HG CharGen (among which fighter pilots are taken) have no possibility to learn Gunnery skill, and they are quite more likely (at least in Imperial Navy) o learn Pilot than Ship's Boat (If the rules are applied as stated, Ship's Boat should be used instead of Pilot).

Anyway, when trying to adapt a B2 ship to HG, crew (and specifically gunnery crew) truly represent quite a problem. This was quite well represented in this post from atpollard in quite an amusing thread some months ago:

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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
Or another favorite of mine ... The Free Trader with two missile-beam-sand turrets is attacked by TIE fighters from three sides, so the first gunner has Turret #1 fire a missile at target 1 (forward) and sand at target 3 (aft) while maintaining a constant beam on the incoming missiles from target 2 (above and to the port) ... [and with his free hand, he slices cucumbers extra thin for some sandwiches after the battle]. The second gunner fires his sand at target 3 (aft) while also shooting a missile and beam at target 1 (forward) [While filling two positions - covering as the ship's Doc - to earn extra money.] After 3 shots, they reload the missiles and sand without missing with the beam.

... but wait, after surviving the encounter, the Free Trader ventures into High Guard, where regulators inform him that he has 6 single weapon batteries and needs a total of 6 gunners (but the fire control is still adequate). Fortunately, each of the regular crew members quickly learn Gunner-1 and fill in Two positions [although some complain when they learn that, for example, the Gunner-Pilot actually takes a cut in pay for filling two positions] aparently taking turns in the two gunner chairs.

... and these gunners only earn 1000 credits per month?
Maybe this does not answer the question, but some laughing is good for sanity .
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Last edited by McPerth; November 3rd, 2011 at 09:02 AM.. Reason: Typos
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 05:27 PM
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Howdy McPerth,

Thanks for answering my question here, I also posted over on CT-Starships.

I just noticed I made an error the design is from HG1 not HG2.

I disagree that all the rules cited in the post say that a gunner is optional. Book 2 Starships Ship Crews p. 16 - "Armed small craft require a gunner in addition to the pilot."

I will agree that the rest of the cited information appears to say the gunner is optional.

Of course the two items taken form Book 5 High Guard appear to be undercut by this material from the Weapons section p. 34 above the Crew entries.

"The pilot is assumed to be the gunner for one type of weapon on the craft. If additional types are mounted (a craft could conceivably have three different types of weapons), a gunner is required for each additional weapon. Exception: no additional gunner is required for sandcasters."

Personally a small craft should have either an option for up to three fixed or a turret of up to three weapons. Fixed weapons only require the pilot to operate. A turret is operated by one crew member. The crew member can be either the pilot and/or a gunner. If the pilot is operating the turret weapons then there are negative DMs. Mixed turrets would still be operated by one person. In modern combat aircraft switching between weapon systems doesn't take any significant time, but the weapon has to be stated before being fired.

I fell like I may be leaving something out but figure out what the something might be.

Again thank-you for the comments.
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