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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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  #1  
Old July 16th, 2020, 12:12 AM
Carlobrand Carlobrand is offline
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Default Bringing the Book-2 ships into a Book-5 milieu

One of my pet peeves for the longest time has been the disjunct between Book 2 ships and Book 5 ships, with the Book 2 ships on the one hand making no sense because of that odd power plant fuel rule and on the other hand being necessary because Book 5 has trouble making a profitable low-tech merchantman.

One convention I adopted was to allow import and export of ship parts, so that the shipyards can construct ships that would ordinarily be beyond their tech level. It means that a TL9 shipyard can built the 90% of the ship that is within its local tech and then import the power plant to finish the job, rather than try to sell something no one wants or lose the whole job to a world with better tech. The power plant tends to set the tech level of unarmored ships, since it varies in cost and size with tech level. Accompanying that, I limited civilian tech to TL13 and limited civilian weapons except sandcasters to TL7 (ostensibly to keep civilian ships from being targeted by privateers for their tech, since the neighboring polities don't have access to TL15 goodies and might be a bit less eager to take a prize if they had to bring it back to retrofit better weapons, and it keeps the civilian ships from having an edge over local governments).

The other involves creating a variant of the two most common Book-2 fusion plants. The only ships I cared to rescue from Book 2 were the Free Trader and the Subsidized Merchant; that simplified things since I didn't have to deal with the disparities found in the larger plants; a few others came along for the ride, but these were the focus. To accomplish my goal I calculated what a power plant would mass and cost if the ship were built using HG-80 maneuver and jump drives but had the same cost, cargo capacity, and so forth as the Book-2 ship, then I created such a plant. The result would be a ship that cost the same as the Book-2 version, with the same performance, but mounting a unique, lower cost but somewhat inferior power plant, the Book-2 plants burning a lot more fuel than their Book 5 counterparts. I took the name from a mention in the deckplan of the Far Trader in Supplement 7. The result is:

The Halonic Prime is a TL8 MCr4 7dT fusion plant common on low-tech worlds as an alternative to conventional fusion technology. The plant generates 500 Mw but consumes fuel at a rate 5 times greater than conventional fusion plants. The Halonic Prime is seen in the Free Trader, Scout/Courier, and Yacht.

The method produces one departure from canon, other than the plant itself: a Halonic Scout/Courier carries 8 weeks of power plant fuel and costs MCr28.53.

The Halonic Duplex is a TL8 MCr8, 9 dT fusion plant, likewise common on low tech worlds, that generates 1000 Mw but likewise consumes fuel at a rate 5 times greater than conventional fusion plants. The Halonic Duplex is found in the Far Trader, Subsidized Merchant, Safari Ship, Vargr Trader, and X-boat.

(This plant produces these departures from canon, other than the plant itself:
  • A Duplex Far Trader costs MCr59.4.
  • A Duplex Subsidized Merchant carries a 2-week supply of fuel instead of a 4-week supply. Most subsidized merchants take advantage of the extra space in the 50 dT drive compartment, adding a 10 dT auxiliary fuel tank there so the ship has 4 weeks plant fuel available.
  • A Duplex Safari Ship has a 10-dT cargo capacity. Cost is MCr72.99.
  • A Duplex Vargr Trader costs MCr58.59.

I did up a duplex x-boat but, since the Book-5 X-boat comes in at TL13, it wasn't worth it. The HG x-boat had 15 dTons to play with at MCr65.6 with a 28-day supply of power plant fuel, while the variant Duplex had 6 dTons to play with at MCr59.85 with a 10-day supply of power plant fuel.
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Comments made are for the purpose of offering alternative campaign settings for consideration. The writer acknowledges that Traveller is intended to emulate certain common science fiction tropes and that, in the course of emulating those tropes and providing a better playing experience, some liberties must be taken with science. No statement by the writer should be interpreted as constituting a criticism of the game on that basis ... except for that bit about Virus. Dude, really?!
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  #2  
Old July 16th, 2020, 03:44 AM
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There are a couple of other options.

1 - keep LBB2 ship construction apart from pp fuel, use the formula from HG for the pp fuel but set a minimum tonnage.
2 - reduce the cost of lower TL pp in HG so that low TL plants are big and cheap while high TL plants are smaller but more expensive,
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Old July 16th, 2020, 06:23 AM
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Even with the vastly cheaper special PP an LBB5 Free trader is not competitive, despite with larger payload:


LBB2 Free Trader, MCr 37:
Code:
FT-2211111-000000-00000-0       MCr 37,1         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=82 Fuel=30 EP=2 Agility=1

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                    82        41,2
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      200 Dt          2          200            
Configuration       Cone               2                     10  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Jump Drive          A                  1    1      10        10  
Manoeuvre D         A                  1    1       1         4  
Power Plant         A                  1    1       4         8  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      30            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                 20      10         1  
                                                                 
Cargo                                              82            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2         0,2
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 41,20            Sum:      82        41,2
Class Cost          MCr  4,53           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 37,08                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low    20                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 37,08        kCr 7 416          kCr 155              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                 Cr 74 160          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                 Cr 15 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support         Cr 19 600          Low             Cr 16 000
Salaries             Cr  7 200          Cargo           Cr 64 000
Maintenance          Cr  1 483                                   
Berthing             Cr    200                                   
                                                                 
Summa               kCr    118                         kCr    123
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 6                    
  Yearly yield on down payment      1,9%


LBB5 Hybrid Free Trader, MCr 46:
Code:
QN-2200011-000000-00000-0       MCr 45,8         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=90 Fuel=22 EP=0 Agility=0

Single Occupancy                                   90        57,2
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             2          200            
Configuration       Cone               2                     22  
Scoops              Streamlined                               0,2
                                                                 
Jump Drive                             1    1       4        16  
Manoeuvre D                            1    1       4         6  
Power Plant         Halonic Prime      1    1       7         4  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      22            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                 20      10         1  
                                                                 
Cargo                                              90            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2            
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 57,20            Sum:      90        57,2
Class Cost          MCr 12,01           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 45,76                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low    20                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 45,76        kCr 9 152          kCr 191              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                 Cr 91 520          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                 Cr 11 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support         Cr 19 600          Low             Cr 16 000
Salaries             Cr  7 200          Cargo           Cr 72 000
Maintenance          Cr  1 830                                   
Berthing             Cr    200                                   
                                                                 
Summa               kCr    131                         kCr    131
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 0                    
  Yearly yield on down payment      0,0%
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  #4  
Old July 16th, 2020, 06:38 AM
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Yup, you really need to import the reduced cost standard hull as well.
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Old July 16th, 2020, 06:43 AM
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The Far Trader is superior with the special PP with lower price and larger payload:


LBB2 Far Trader, MCr 66, 48 Dton cargo:
Code:
FT-22212R1-000000-00000-0       MCr 65,8         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
             Pass=6 Low=4 Cargo=48 Fuel=60 EP=4 Agility=1

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                    48        73  
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             2          200            
Configuration       Cone               2                     22  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  
                                                                 
Jump Drive          B                  2    1      15        20  
Manoeuvre D         A                  1    1       1         4  
Power Plant         B                  2    1       7        16  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-2, 4 weeks            2      60            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1bis             R    1       1         4  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                  4       2         0,2
                                                                 
Cargo                                              48            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2         0,2
                                                                 
Air/raft            4 Dton                  1       4         0,6
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 73,00            Sum:      48        73  
Class Cost          MCr  7,96           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 65,76                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low     4                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 65,76       kCr 13 152          kCr 274              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 131 520          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                Cr  30 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support        Cr  18 000          Low             Cr  3 200
Salaries            Cr   7 200          Cargo           Cr 36 000
Maintenance         Cr   2 630                                   
Berthing            Cr     200                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     190                         kCr     82
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr -107                    
  Yearly yield on down payment     -20,4%


LBB5 hybrid Far Trader, MCr 58, 60 Dton cargo:
Code:
FT-22212R1-000000-00000-0       MCr 57,6         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                           TL=11
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=60 Fuel=44 EP=4 Agility=1

Single Occupancy                                   60        71,8
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             2          200            
Configuration       Cone               2                     22  
Scoops              Streamlined                               0,2
                                                                 
Jump Drive                             2    1       6        24  
Manoeuvre D                            1    1       4         6  
Power Plant                            2    1       9         8  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-2, 4 weeks            2      44            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1bis             R    1       1         4  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                 20      10         1  
                                                                 
Cargo                                              60            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2            
                                                                 
Air/raft            4 Dton                  1       4         0,6
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 71,80            Sum:      60        71,8
Class Cost          MCr 14,95           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 57,56                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low    20                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 57,56       kCr 11 512          kCr 240              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 115 120          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                Cr  22 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support        Cr  19 600          Low             Cr 16 000
Salaries            Cr   7 200          Cargo           Cr 48 000
Maintenance         Cr   2 302                                   
Berthing            Cr     200                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     166                         kCr    107
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr -59                    
  Yearly yield on down payment     -12,9%
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  #6  
Old July 16th, 2020, 06:44 AM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Sorry, I see no parity, just random tinkering with the system...
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Old July 16th, 2020, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Yup, you really need to import the reduced cost standard hull as well.
Agreed, you can't compare small LBB2 and LBB5 designs without taking standard hulls into consideration.

On the other hand LBB5 has a larger standard discount and fuel purifiers...
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Old July 16th, 2020, 07:28 AM
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Note: We can build reasonable low tech traders with LBB5, just use LBB2 drives, e.g.:

Code:
FT-2611111-000000-00000-0       MCr 37,8         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=82 Fuel=30 EP=2 Agility=1

Single Occupancy                                   82        47,2
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             2          200            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     16  
Scoops              Streamlined                               0,2
                                                                 
Jump Drive          A                  1    1      10        10  
Manoeuvre D         A                  1    1       1         4  
Power Plant         A                  1    1       4         8  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      30            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                 20      10         1  
                                                                 
Cargo                                              82            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2            
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 47,20            Sum:      82        47,2
Class Cost          MCr  9,91           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 37,76                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low    20                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 37,76        kCr 7 552          kCr 157              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                 Cr 75 520          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                 Cr 15 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support         Cr 19 600          Low             Cr 16 000
Salaries             Cr  7 200          Cargo           Cr 64 000
Maintenance          Cr  1 510                                   
Berthing             Cr    200                                   
                                                                 
Summa               kCr    119                         kCr    123
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 4                    
  Yearly yield on down payment      1,4%
Yes, it is almost identical to the LBB2 Free Trader, but with a different configuration, we annoyingly need new deck plans.



We can increase profitability with a fuel purifier:
Code:
FT-2611111-000000-00000-0       MCr 37,8         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=73 Fuel=30 EP=2 Agility=1

Single Occupancy                                   73        47,2
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             2          200            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     16  
Scoops              Streamlined                               0,2
                                                                 
Jump Drive          A                  1    1      10        10  
Manoeuvre D         A                  1    1       1         4  
Power Plant         A                  1    1       4         8  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      30            
Purifier                                    1       9         0,0
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         1  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                 10      40         5  
Low Berths                                 20      10         1  
                                                                 
Cargo                                              73            
                                                                 
Empty hardpoint                             2       2            
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 47,24            Sum:      73        47,2
Class Cost          MCr  9,92           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 37,79                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     3        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     3           4       Engineers     1
                      Low    20                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     2
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 37,79        kCr 7 558          kCr 157              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                 Cr 75 584          High            Cr 24 000
Fuel                 Cr  3 000          Middle          Cr 19 200
Life Support         Cr 19 600          Low             Cr 16 000
Salaries             Cr  7 200          Cargo           Cr 56 000
Maintenance          Cr  1 512                                   
Berthing             Cr    200                                   
                                                                 
Summa               kCr    107                         kCr    115
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 8                    
  Yearly yield on down payment      2,7%
And we don't have to misjump every year or two...
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Old July 16th, 2020, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlobrand View Post
that odd power plant fuel rule...
Is this about the 10Pn from the fuel requirements?
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Old July 17th, 2020, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creativehum View Post
Is this about the 10Pn from the fuel requirements?
Yeah; operationally, it's often much more fuel than smaller ships actually use in practice (cf. Beltstrike).

As per page 11 of the Belter's Handbook, a 100dt, Plant-2 Type S which "must" carry 20dt of fuel to support 4 weeks of power plant operations typically burns through less than 1 dton of fuel per week even if you constantly hotdog it around at 2Gs.

Plus, if you hack a Type S into a Type J, you are either breaking the Jump fuel requirement or the power fuel requirement. I always figure that 10Pn is a rule-of-thumb safety regulation, rather than a descriptive metric. At 30 dtons total, a Type J does in fact carry 10Pn in available fuel -- 20dt -- but operators often fly around on less, having burned a full 20 dtons to make a J-2 previously. The 30 dtons of fuel a Type J carries by default in integral tankage meets both the Jump fuel and power plant fuel guidelines, just not combined, so I figure the ship is granted its spaceworthiness certificate and allowed to operate from starports with 20dt to meet either requirement and 10dt left over to partially satisfy the other, as needed by the varying particulars of how it is operated.

Finally, there is the weird problem that -- for example -- a model A power plant "needs" 20dt of fuel to operate in a Type S, but the exact same drive only requires 10 dtons when installed in a Type A. The rule assumes the Model A power plant drives the same model A M-drive at the same output -- 200Gee-tons -- somehow twice as efficiently in the bigger ship, Beltstrike notwithstanding.

And in both cases, the power plant is apparently really only using ~.75 dtons of fuel a week, tops. The 20dt a Type S carries should be good for not merely 4 weeks, but more like 26 weeks -- half a year or so. (Which is not a big deal, since fuel for a Type S can often be had for free anyway.)

Hence the definite "oddnesss" of the rule...
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