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  #101  
Old October 5th, 2015, 01:26 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
No one is going to pay High Passage to travel on a free trader for the service anyway. The only way someone who is used to travelling by high passage would travel by free trader is if he has some ulterior motive. Perhaps the free trader is the only one going in the direction the passenger wants to go; perhaps he wants to avoid leaving behind records of his travel; perhaps theres some other reason. The bottom line is, though, that the presence or absence of the proper level of personal service isn't going to affect his decision to travel by that free trader one way or the other. (Especially since the food he'll get will be the same as that of the medium passengers).

So when Richie McRichguy shows up at the entry hatchway of the Slovenly Bastard, he'll either pay for a mid passage or he'll be told that the ship is full up already, in which case he'll whip out a High Passage (or Priority Passage Voucher as I call it) and get his passage anyway.


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Maybe ships should have a Social Standing based on style, space, luxuries and how loaded with Stewards they are? High SOC characters risk societal demotion being seen entering the 'wrong ship' on 'civilized' worlds?
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  #102  
Old October 5th, 2015, 03:12 AM
MongooseMatt MongooseMatt is offline
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
Maybe ships should have a Social Standing based on style, space, luxuries and how loaded with Stewards they are? High SOC characters risk societal demotion being seen entering the 'wrong ship' on 'civilized' worlds?
I quite like that idea Not as a core rule, but it is kinda cool!
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  #103  
Old October 5th, 2015, 03:20 AM
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I quite like that idea Not as a core rule, but it is kinda cool!
Definitely a good idea... as an option. But note that, in the OTU, Even a wild tramp is an extravagance sufficient for an honor-duke...
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  #104  
Old October 5th, 2015, 04:20 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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Well if you do use it, be sure and charge accordingly. Think 30,000 Cr per parsec.

I always figured the fare structure was a government/bank collusion thing, to allow support of interstellar trade AND get profits out of loans- a more cutthroat rate war and pricing to the bone market would eliminate small boat owners AND make trade a much more volatile unpredictable and therefore less useful of a business model.

Near as I can tell, in real world shipping most ships don't last more then 15-20 years as markets change and costs to operate mount. Some have, but they are exceptions.

The sailing ships that lasted 30-60 years or more were effectively rebuilt, some many times, by the maintenance and refit process.

Railroad engines can last 6 decades, or be used up in a decade, depending on how many miles they put on in what kind of duty and how economical rebuild/refit is based on the locomotives' basic utility, condition of subsystems, and fit with current business needs.

So sometimes I wonder about that whole 40 year mortgage thing. The ships may be built well, but space is rough.
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  #105  
Old October 5th, 2015, 11:48 AM
Adam Dray Adam Dray is offline
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
So sometimes I wonder about that whole 40 year mortgage thing. The ships may be built well, but space is rough.
I assume that anyone taking a long mortgage on a starship worth tens or hundreds of MCr would be required to pay private mortgage insurance (PMI) on top of the mortgage.

This also makes me wonder what kind of underwriter investigation is performed when a group of people try to take out a mortgage to buy a ship. This ought to be a miniadventure in itself.

I just went on a sprawling Internet research jaunt, reading about shipping finance loans and learning about loan-to-value ratios, EBIDTA, interest ratios, and so on.

It seems real-world shipping loans (ranging $US 10-100 million) mature within 8-12 years, require a 0-35% downpayment, and have a 1-3% prepayment penalty. These loans also require insurance covering: builder's risk, hull and machinery, protection and indemnity, pollution, war risks, and mortgage insurance interest/breach of warranty.

Generally, reputable lenders want to understand how you're going to repay this loan. A business plan is warranted. Of course, a half-dozen ex-military folks might secure financing with a less reputable lender...
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  #106  
Old October 5th, 2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
I assume that anyone taking a long mortgage on a starship worth tens or hundreds of MCr would be required to pay private mortgage insurance (PMI) on top of the mortgage.

This also makes me wonder what kind of underwriter investigation is performed when a group of people try to take out a mortgage to buy a ship. This ought to be a miniadventure in itself.

I just went on a sprawling Internet research jaunt, reading about shipping finance loans and learning about loan-to-value ratios, EBIDTA, interest ratios, and so on.

It seems real-world shipping loans (ranging $US 10-100 million) mature within 8-12 years, require a 0-35% downpayment, and have a 1-3% prepayment penalty. These loans also require insurance covering: builder's risk, hull and machinery, protection and indemnity, pollution, war risks, and mortgage insurance interest/breach of warranty.

Generally, reputable lenders want to understand how you're going to repay this loan. A business plan is warranted. Of course, a half-dozen ex-military folks might secure financing with a less reputable lender...
I actually worked out an insurance schema within the confines of the existing mortgage system, where the BANK pays for the insurance out of the payments and is the legal beneficiary. Higher rates after loss are then passed along to the mortgagees in the form of higher payments since they are now a 'proven risk', and a comparable replacement ship is provided so the players can continue to service the debt (which disincentives 'lose the ship on purpose' and pay off the debt or 'ship loss and trade up new' schemes).

Want to know where all those used and repo ships go? The insurance claim aftermarket would be a big one, and a lot less turnaround to get merchants back up running and paying that monthly debt then waiting on the next replacement ship from the yards.

Course, any additional coverage for equipment added on would have to either be covered under a higher debt payment or a separate policy.
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