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Old January 6th, 2004, 11:55 PM
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What would an civil war fought on a very high population, TL F, balkanized world look like? Would there even be any survivors?
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Old January 7th, 2004, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by daryen:
What would an civil war fought on a very high population, TL F, balkanized world look like? Would there even be any survivors?
Just because they have high-tech weapons of huge, horrible destruction wouldn't mean they would use them on each other. Weapons of mass destruction tend to wipe out populations and/or cities and resources, which in a civil war you tend to want to keep.

I think it would look a lot like a civil war at TL-8, but with many more small, high-tech commando actions and a lot of information warfare.

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Old January 7th, 2004, 12:51 PM
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Well, it has been shown that Rebellion was one giant Civil War at TL F. Everything from Info-Warfare to giant Mechs was fair game.

But, remember, higher tech, we often get lower populations and more valuable in terms of a strategic resource.
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Old January 7th, 2004, 02:00 PM
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Higher tech = greater precision?

A high tech battlefield could be one of surgical strikes against military targets and variou non-lethal technologies used against the civilian population. Add electronic warware against control systems and robotic factories and it all adds up to a "nice", "clean", "play by the rules" conflict.

The trouble is that civil wars tend to be an excuse to throw that rulebook out of the window.
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Old January 7th, 2004, 03:25 PM
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I would think that a Civil War would either be put down pretty fast at TL F or do some major damage to the planet. Fusion guns can pack a big punch. If it's a fair fight at TL F - not just one side with TL F tech - then when the talking is finished, it's a lot of grunts shooting big guns. If it's true TL F. You wouldn't see that much on a balkanized world, I would think. One faction would have better tech than another, most likely. And then you're looking at a situation like VietNam probably - or what we have now with the terrorist situation. Doesn't mean that one faction can't steal from the other, tho (or hijack).

Just my .02Cr

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Old January 7th, 2004, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Higher tech = greater precision?

A high tech battlefield could be one of surgical strikes against military targets and variou non-lethal technologies used against the civilian population. Add electronic warware against control systems and robotic factories and it all adds up to a "nice", "clean", "play by the rules" conflict.

The trouble is that civil wars tend to be an excuse to throw that rulebook out of the window.
Yes, I think the key point is whether or not the various sides are willing to play by the rulebook. If one side is playing by the rules, then you get to have a bit more precision and fewer non combatant casualties inflicted by that side.

However, if one side *isn't* playing by the rules, then I think that higher tech just means the side not playing by the rules has a greater chance to do more mass damage more easily.

As a comparison, think about a group of 20 terrorists with TL 2-3 tech vs TL 7. The TL 2-3 group basically has to kill people by hand or otherwise be right there to cause casualties. Raid a village, poison its water supply, that sort of thing. Still limited in scope.

A TL 7 group can, say, set of nuke devices in multiple places, put deadly communicable diseases onto planes so that they are spread gobally, etc. The same size group has the potential to have a much greater effect.

I'd expect the same, only magnified at TL F. Just imagine a group getting a hold of, say, a meson gun emplacement.

Ron
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Old January 7th, 2004, 04:22 PM
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I'd say that sort of conflict would probably be characterized by a very long cold war, since all sides would be aware that open warfare could be The End. They'd be trying to position themselves to win with a knockout punch, or failing that to escalate the cold war's focus of competition until only one side can maintain.

An example of the first type is David Drake's "Draka" books - Earth is basically split between two cultures that can't coexist, and they both work to complete attacks that will wipe the other one out in one fell swoop (one side goes biological, the other one concentrates on infotech). An example of the second type would be the historical US-USSR cold war.

The cold war would undoubtedly heat up in some local areas, but both sides would normally be careful not to escalate it until they were ready to go all the way, or at least could bluff convincingly. Figuring out whether the other side is really ready or bluffing is all part of the world's realpolitik.
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Old February 10th, 2004, 03:35 AM
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Does a Balkanized world have "civil wars" when it has several different states?
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Old February 10th, 2004, 03:53 AM
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No, it has very uncivil(???) wars [img]graemlins/file_21.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]
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Old February 11th, 2004, 12:36 AM
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Hello.
Balkanised worlds can have civil wars.
I would think that any civil war would never be fought by the book once one side starts to loose they will try anything to even up the odds again.
If you are willing to kill your brother, what do you care about strangers.
Remember the other side isn't human they are animals in a civil or any other type of war (this is what propaganda is for).
The winner writes the history books, so if you win your lilly white and they are as black as sin (they tortured prisoners, bombed cities, moved entire populations into concentration camps, But we didn't because we are NICE).
A person is kind and considerate, people are cruel and inhuman, and war anykind turns all into people.
Gets of soap box.
Bye.
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