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Old May 20th, 2018, 04:54 PM
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Default minaitures and measuring tapes

Why is it inappropriate to "premeasure" in a miniatures' game? When using hex maps you count the range. When using any other map type you measure out the range, but apparently it's considered bad form for miniature gaming.

Can someone tell me why?
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Old May 21st, 2018, 03:55 AM
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Might depend on the game.

They handed out laser pointers for line of sight in Forty Kay.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Might depend on the game.

They handed out laser pointers for line of sight in Forty Kay.
40K allows pre-checking LOS but not distance, last I checked.

the theory is that the troops wouldn't know the exact distance, but would know whether or not they could see the enemy...
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Old May 21st, 2018, 11:54 AM
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Apparently it's a no-no in certain gaming circles, and I'm not sure why it varies from game to game.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
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Apparently it's a no-no in certain gaming circles, and I'm not sure why it varies from game to game.
My best guess is that estimating range becomes a matter of player skill.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
Why is it inappropriate to "premeasure" in a miniatures' game? When using hex maps you count the range. When using any other map type you measure out the range, but apparently it's considered bad form for miniature gaming.
Anecdote time. Favorite mini game anecdote.

WWII naval combat game.

Players are supposed to estimate ranges to target salvos of their ships.

Typically, players would fire a spread, several shots at different ranges to account for their error.

Obviously, you call your shot, then measure it and roll results.

One guy, however, was Very Good. He wasn't spreading, he was very accurate much of the time.

Later, when asked about his keen accuracy, he commented "Well, see, we're playing on a tile floor with 1 foot tiles, so..."

He was the only player that realized they were essentially playing the game on large graph paper.

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Old May 21st, 2018, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
Why is it inappropriate to "premeasure" in a miniatures' game? When using hex maps you count the range. When using any other map type you measure out the range, but apparently it's considered bad form for miniature gaming.

Can someone tell me why?

I know in my Warhammer/40K days, the circulated reason was that certain weapons were "guess" based, i.e. the player himself would have to guess the range to target, then place the weapons effect marker at the stated range (these were normally things like arty or other powerful weapons with an area effect so even a near miss could sometimes catch the targeted troops)

Therefore, it was considered to be basically cheating to premesure as it took the "guess" out of the equation, and increased the effectiveness of these weapons in comparison to what the designers expected.

however, "indirect" measurements and deductions were quite OK, such as " that cannon has not moved during this game, and nor has mine. we are playing on a 48 inch table, and our troops could not start more than 8 inches form our table edge. we both put our cannons near the front of our deployment zones, so I think that cannon is 32 inchs away."
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Old May 21st, 2018, 03:48 PM
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My guess it is a left-over from the Fletcher Pratt Naval Game, where tape measures were barred, and you had to estimate range. This in turn was derived from the original Jane's Naval Game, where again you had to guess your range. While that made sense for the Jane Game from 1898, it really did not make sense for the Pratt game, as by World War 2, except for very small ships, range finders were widely carried.

Now, for World War 2 miniature armor games, I can see the reason, as tanks were not carrying range finders, and much of the range was a guesstimate based on the apparent size of the target through the periscope sight. The same would hold true for artillery forward observers.

Basically, it reduces the hit rate, resulting in longer games, with more chances for maneuver and luck to play a role.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 03:58 PM
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Thanks everyone for the replies. To me it just seems like if all you're doing is upscaling the game with miniatures instead of counters on a hex map, then it shouldn't really matter too much.

But, I guess it's an issue with the whole "realism in guessing/estimating range" thing. Oh well.

thanks again....I'll try not to get annoyed the next time it happens
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Old May 21st, 2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
Thanks everyone for the replies. To me it just seems like if all you're doing is upscaling the game with miniatures instead of counters on a hex map, then it shouldn't really matter too much.

But, I guess it's an issue with the whole "realism in guessing/estimating range" thing. Oh well.

thanks again....I'll try not to get annoyed the next time it happens
1) you've got the relationship backwards
2) The two types of games are now very distinct from each other.

Minis games with eye based ranging date back to about 1910.
Counters on map were a downscale from minis-games, and started in the 1950's; they created a new niche, and were pretty distinct markets by the mid 60's.

Non-wargame boardgames date back millennia.
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