Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > Ship's Locker

Ship's Locker Submit your favorite original equipment and weapons for others to use in their own Traveller campaigns.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 26th, 2008, 03:32 AM
Diveguy Diveguy is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Gallery : 7
Diveguy Citizen+Diveguy Citizen+
Default So what are small arms like anyways?

Following a lively and educated discussion in another thread on carbines, I thought I would share my thoughts on small arms (specifically slugthrowers) IMTU:

General trends - While certainly not all-inclusive the following three elements are common to my small arms. Caseless ammunition has become standard with certain exceptions - allowing a reduction in cost, an increase in magazine capacity and smoother feeding/ejection. This is combined with a general trend towards some sort of electrical priming/ignition, removing the mechanical component from the sequence and accuracy. Finally, ammunition (particularly given the thoughts of space travel and enclosed environments dirtside) have generally become frangible blends of whatever sort - designed to damage a soft target, but break up rapidly on a hard surface.

The "body pistol" - these generally come from various government covert agencies of your choice, thus the high-tech and subtlety over a regular "Saturday night special". Formed of synthetics and designed for concealment and effectiveness. Often referred to as "chillers" in vernacular (h/t to Dean Ing), for both the quiet round and the effect of putting a target at room tempertature. There are two trends in this type of weapon - either the large caliber/slow velocity (think a .45 with integral suppressor); or the small/fast crowd (think something like the FN 5.7 pistol). These will generally have some sort of integrated suppressor; possibly a fingerprint ID system, and be designed for concealablity. Earth-now equivilents would be the micro-glocks, or something like the Kahr-concealables with tech enhancements.

"Snub pistols" - run the gammut. Can be anything from the 2x century "Saturday night special" to a ship's officer gun designed for minimal bulk but displaying a position of authority. My thoughts generally run to the mid-sized auto pistols these days (Glock 23/SIG 229/Colt Commander). Designed to be somewhat concealable, simple, reliable and work - or else to be cheap and go bang at least sometimes (think your High-point pistols if you want to get that diverse).

"Revolver" - depending on the day depends on my thoughts on these. On the one hand I feel the tech is too outdated even in a "Firefly" type setting. On the other hand, it has the advantage of being mechanically run, meaning it always goes bang at some point if other physics don't intrude. Right now I'd lean towards a ship's locker weapon and work from there - but I'm open to suggestions. My thoughts today ran towards the scouts favoring them, but not sure yet..

Auto pistol - the generic semi-auto loader. Still figure some sort of box magazine even if caseless, and I see the trend IMTU to big slow rounds with better terminal energy.... Choose your modern autoloader and it should fit.

"SMG" - two primary roles in my thoughts. either a PDW for those space/ground crews who don't need a full long arm, or covert/criminal acts wanting to put a lot of rounds downrange quick without a big weapon. My two "platforms" of choice for this right now are the TP9 or the Magpul PDW in my mental images. Ammo though interchangable with the generic "autopistol"

Carbine - designed as a weapon for those between the SMG and the ACR, or as a spec-ops type tool. My thoughts go to either the FN FS200, or the Masada/Bushmaster ACR with a short barrel. Think short & light, but still better than "spray and pray". In game terms I want something that players would say "ok that's good if we run into trouble but is still subtle" instead of being a catch-all midrange weapon.

ACR - This should be the "catch all" infantry weapon. Reliable, accurate and easy to teach. My current thoughts run towards something like the Masada ACR with a 16" barrel; but of course that is open. No real shocks in game terms here.

Rifle - currently bouncing between thoughts here.

Shotgun - Originally I had the whole "shipboard use" argument here - which is still valid, but things like frangible ammo limit it. But I also added my Scout Service thought here & can see them favoring it. A number of simple thoughts - pump action is totally user dependant, as opposed to environment, grip etc - so the scout can always control from 50 g to zero g (exageration noted). It's a large caliber round, so you have the kinetic energy transfer issue addressed despite the life form. Finally, a pump action gives said scout a variety of choices in ammo without much user drama, which again fits the image I have of the lone explorer addressing things.

Thoughts & comments welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 26th, 2008, 04:16 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

IMTU, for comparison:

Body Pistol: your basic CZ-50 or PPK type small frame light auto small caliber. Easily concealed because of the small size. (I used to carry a CZ-50 concealed. EASILY hidden in many ways; a decent pocket gun.)

Snub Pistol: Large Cal short barrel and short round, low velocity. Designed not to damage consoles nor penetrate partition walls. A spacer's shipboard gun. Beats you up inside your vacc suit, probably not going to actually breech it. 100j or so, but on a 10-15mm slug instead of a 5mm.

Revolver: Still around because it's danged reliable. Not significantly different from the 1930's, 1960's, or 2000's era revolvers, a stable and mature bit of tech, that can be made almost anywhere you can mill steel. Reliable, rugged, and cheap.

Autopistols: the basic military pistols. Not as reliable as revolvers, but more ammo, and often better power.

Machine Pistols: Full automatic autopistols. Officer's guns, or elite unit backup guns.

SMG: Room Brooms. Long pistols with full auto, and sometimes a stock. Think Uzi or Mach 10. Not a conealable weapon, but not too bulky either. Largest comfortably wearable holster-guns, and smallest slingables.

Carbines: Typically hunting weapons, but also used by mounted troops both on beasts and vehicles.

Rifles, hunting: samo-samo as now.

Rifles, Battle/assault/ACR: Military longarms. The ACR is a long-barreled assault weapon, bullpupped to make it's .8m that much more effective. A variety exist, and a variety are used. Sole Purpose is to hurt people.

Rifles, Sniper: Big bore, long barrel, massive accuracy. Specialist guns.

Shotguns, 1-3bbl: breech loaders are sporting arms.
Shotguns, SA or SS+IM: Things like the Mossberg 500... basic reliable weapons with repeat fire. Used for a variety of things. Big enough to launch TL9+ grenades, displaces the GL at TL9. Coax mounts available with ACR's.
Shotguns, Full Auto: Designed for throwing lots of lead into confined spaces. Purely military, and almost exclusively elite weapons.
Shotguns, general: The extensive ammo variety allows them to be the general all-around weapon of choice. Light shot aboard ship. Slug, Flare, Grenade, Flechette, HEAP, KEAP... a huge variety of warhead types in 15-25mm shotguns makes them incredibly versatile.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 26th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Icosahedron Icosahedron is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,561
Gallery : 7
Icosahedron Citizen
Default

My thoughts are similar to Aramis. Most small arms are similar to today's except for minor updating. They are designed to be built over a wide range of TLs. I have a standardisation of ammunition (partly for my own benefit as GM and partly as a cultural trend) with anything other than 4 (gauss) 5.5, 6 (acc), 9, 10 and 20mm being hard to get.
My Body Pistol was featured in the recent Freelance Traveller competition. My Snub Pistol is a larger bore, short-barrelled revolver or auto. SMGs are mini-Uzi style and I don't have full-auto shotguns (I imagine you'd need battledress to hold the thing steady, but what do I know, I'm a Brit. )
I've also used Striker to design new devices such as a 5.5mm electric gatling (Predator) and a 'Blaster' - a recoil-compensated shotgun pistol. I don't allow 'special' ammo below 10mm. (I know the tech should be possible, but I think it breaks the game when you have 5.5mm rocket-assisted target-seeking HEAPs available).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 26th, 2008, 08:20 AM
samuelvss's Avatar
samuelvss samuelvss is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blacksburg
Posts: 1,237
Gallery : 15
samuelvss Citizen
Default

IMTU I follow aramis's model closest, with these exceptions.

Revolvers use cased ammo, as do most auto pistols and carbines. Caseless is used by body pistols, ACR's, and some Autorifles. There is "ImpStd," which is interstellar standard, per Icosahedron, put locally manufactured stuff can get extremely exotic. As such, if a character finds a locally produced arm, then ammo can be a restriction. At higher TL's, it can be produced at a much higher price, with locally produced dies and components.

I have used rifle grenades, lifted right out of Striker, extensively, even adding laser designation/terminal guidance. If set to "paint," a laser can shoot 5 coded (lower power) bursts in a turn. It takes a couple of turns to set up, which can be hours before, but then 1 fireteam of TLA+ troopers, can take out an armor platoon of comparable tech level in a turn.

Adapters are available to shoot rifle grenades from shotguns. The law level is a huge limiting factor on these.
__________________
Essayons!

SVSS


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Leave the gun; take the cannoli."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 26th, 2008, 11:23 AM
samuelvss's Avatar
samuelvss samuelvss is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blacksburg
Posts: 1,237
Gallery : 15
samuelvss Citizen
Default

As to Diveguy's original musings on the revolver, the various technological improvements (caseless, electrical primers, holo sights) all come with a price. The revolver, once the cased ammo is sealed (as most modern ammo isn't) against moisture, is a weapon that requires, in essence, no maintenance to function decades after it was left neglected in a mud puddle. Essentially can't jam.

It thus has a similar niche to the knife and hammer; there may be many higher tech ways of cutting and banging better, indeed orders of magnitude better, but the simple will always have a seat at the table.
__________________
Essayons!

SVSS


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Leave the gun; take the cannoli."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 26th, 2008, 08:05 PM
spank spank is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 370
Gallery : 0
spank Citizen
Default Small Arms

I try to use small arms as flavor; Core worlds tend to have higher tech weapons, frontier worlds tend more towards rugged simple weapons like the revolver, or chemically powered weapons.

The main point of this divide is that ammo relying on chemical power has a lot more of a shelf life, and is more resistant to enviromental factors.

Snub pistols IMTU fall into 2 Catagories, low powered IE Saturday Nite specials, and the Spacer Snubs, usually more High Tech designs.

I tend to use shotguns as a more multipurpose arm firing anything from slugs to camera/sensor rounds {that can be followed up by smart rounds}
__________________
Being a leader is like being a thief; if you do your job properly nobody knows you did anything at all.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 27th, 2008, 12:06 AM
epicenter00's Avatar
epicenter00 epicenter00 is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 850
Gallery : 0
epicenter00 Citizen+epicenter00 Citizen+epicenter00 Citizen+
Default

I think we Traveller are trying valiantly to defend weapons choices that were drafted by weapons the writers of the game saw lying around in the 1970s. There's really little or no reasons why some of these odd weapons categories would still be used. Carbines are "short rifles" (pretty much every rifle during WW2 could be considered a carbine - even the Kar 98k is "k" for "karbine" since it was shorter than the rifle it was developed from - and now WW2 rifles are considered hopelessly huge and overpowered) are as strange of a category as you get, almost as odd as "Personal Defense Weapon" being marketed by modern gunmakers.

One of the nicer justifications for revolvers came about in T4 (at least that's the first place I saw it) where Miller pointed out that revolvers were basically dead weapons by that time, but were revived as ceremonial weapons of ranking Sylean nobles. As the lower classes ape what nobles do, I could see revolvers reappearing as weapons on that merit.

Myself, I had different reasons why revolvers and shotguns exist in Traveller. While shipboard shotguns exist in layouts which are familiar today because they can be made on lower-tech worlds (ie; backwards or frontiers), at higher tech levels, both revolvers and shotguns are treated as "projectors" and have something in common with grenade launchers, especially "smart" ones like the proposed OICW. Imperial-issue shotguns and revolvers are sort of gadgety weapons, with shotguns having revolving feeds as well. They also feature electrical cylinder overrides (though if unpowered they default to mechanical feed). While they can fire things like ball, slug, carbide penetrator, and similar rounds familiar today, they can also fire things like signal flares, tranq rounds, electronic tagging/tracers, grenades (smart and dumb), and similar rounds. As they're revolver weapons, there's no need to worry about lack of pressure not working the actions - you can load in very low power rounds for specialized applications (like non-lethal). The rounds are manufactured so they can be identified by the gun and the shooter can choose which cylinder he or she is going to fire next.

Obviously such weapons aren't assigned to every trooper. You'd see them most commonly in the hands of ISS guys or used by Imperial Marine specialists.
__________________
"... to be truly happy a man has to live absolutely in the present - no thought as what's gone before and no thought of what lies ahead. But a life of meaning, a man is condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 27th, 2008, 12:55 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Carbines, in hunting parlance, are weapons designed to be useable mounted. They trade power for barrel length, and use rifle ammo as a general rule.

Rifles, in hunting parlance, are for foot use, and maximized power by maximal barrel length.

Almost every assault weapon is short enough to be a carbine, but the rounds tend to be smaller, and have excess powder, to make up for the short barrels, plus have other optomizations... and generally are not civilian weapons. (Except the mini-14 and the AR-15... which are civiian versions of their respective battle and assault weapons.)
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 27th, 2008, 02:01 AM
veltyen veltyen is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 1,370
Gallery : 0
veltyen Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Carbines, in hunting parlance, are weapons designed to be useable mounted. They trade power for barrel length, and use rifle ammo as a general rule.
Mounted also in the modern sense. Far easier to use a carbine from inside a HUMVEE then a full rifle.

I have seen some very nice 9mm carbines. They do trade the power of a rifle round for lack of kick, reasonable range (compared to the pistols they share the ammo with) and intimidation factor.

Kel-tec 2000
Beretta CX4 storm

Both of these also have the advantage of looking futuristic (in a "that will look horrible dated in 10 years" way).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 27th, 2008, 02:14 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

I was actually thinking snowmachines, 4 wheelers, and trikes, but yeah, inside hummers works, too...

And I'd forgotton about "pistol-caliber" carbines... essentially, tho, they are SS, SA, or LA SMG equivalents... that is, aside from ROF and Action Type, they are directly comparable to SMG's more than rifles. They really turn into SMG's with the Thompson... the transitional form between carbines and SMG's.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3G3 small arms design - anyone tried it? anders lager Ship's Locker 16 December 18th, 2012 02:46 PM
question regarding book 4 small arms flykiller Imperial Research Station 13 October 12th, 2007 06:13 PM
FF&S / FF&S Small Arms issues? Scott Martin The Lone Star 6 July 24th, 2007 01:22 PM
MegaTraveller small arms design mctesla MegaTraveller 14 August 14th, 2006 05:50 PM
The Future of Small Arms Todg Ship's Locker 147 April 22nd, 2006 12:55 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.