Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > Imperial Research Station

Imperial Research Station A forum for discussing technology and related topics for use in the Traveller Universe

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 25th, 2007, 11:50 PM
flykiller's Avatar
flykiller flykiller is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: desert
Posts: 6,887
Gallery : 114
flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++
Default question regarding book 4 small arms

looking over book 4's tech level progression of infantry small arms I see:

tech 7: assault rifle
tech 8: laser carbine
tech 9: laser rifle
tech A: advanced combat rifle
tech B: --
tech C: gauss rifle

what do the lasers do that the assault rifle doesn't? and vice versa? and the same for the ACR. why would a soldier carry a laser carbine or laser rifle instead of an assault rifle, or an ACR instead of a laser rifle?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 26th, 2007, 12:58 AM
Captain Midnight Captain Midnight is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 149
Gallery : 0
Captain Midnight Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
what do the lasers do that the assault rifle doesn't? and vice versa? and the same for the ACR. why would a soldier carry a laser carbine or laser rifle instead of an assault rifle, or an ACR instead of a laser rifle?
My first answer is, "The laser weapon lets you designate a target for artillery or laser-guided weaponry".

If you're asking about the practical end of things, such as damage and range and ammo capacity and that sort of things, well... I've switched over to GURPS Traveller myself, and don't actually have access to my old collection of LBB's anymore. I do have my old MegaTrav stuff, and that defines lasers as having higher penetration values and ammo supply, but they cost a lot more, so you'd have to balance all that out.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 26th, 2007, 02:31 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,396
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

The lasers preclude carrying your own equipment... they are backpack powered. So, really, it's

7: Autorifle
10: ACR
12: Gauss Rifle.

The CT laser weapons are specifically impractical as line infantry weapons. For defenders, however, who are not carrying supplies, or near patrol from base, they are realtively comparable damage, and better accuracy.
But CT ones have only 50 shots...
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 26th, 2007, 07:21 AM
Jame's Avatar
Jame Jame is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Generally, Damascaa Towns
Posts: 7,772
Gallery : 0
Jame Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The lasers preclude carrying your own equipment... they are backpack powered. So, really, it's

7: Autorifle
10: ACR
12: Gauss Rifle.

The CT laser weapons are specifically impractical as line infantry weapons. For defenders, however, who are not carrying supplies, or near patrol from base, they are realtively comparable damage, and better accuracy.
But CT ones have only 50 shots...
Which is why I permit the carriage of small battery packs which are approximately the size of magazines (though now that I think about it, they're TL of introduction is 10 and the rifle/carbine ones are initially closer to the size of SAW magazines); of course they have ammo counts comparable to the Autorifle.

I still think that the tech progression and weights need to be tweaked (and I also think that non-laser rifles should get +1D damage [so an autorifle does 4d and a Gauss rifle does 5d] - they're more lethal than pistols and should reflect that).
__________________
Member #5, Bring Back T5 in LBBs.

"Unfortunately, the Publishers regret that they can enter into no correspondence on this matter. If the Publishers are involved in any correspondence, they shall trace and revoke your mail priveleges."

Baron Damaascaa Towns, Kiikigulii, 1735 Sakhag/Antares
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 26th, 2007, 11:52 AM
Gadrin's Avatar
Gadrin Gadrin is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Redlands, CA USA
Posts: 1,574
Gallery : 1
Gadrin Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
looking over book 4's tech level progression of infantry small arms I see:

tech 7: assault rifle
tech 8: laser carbine
tech 9: laser rifle
tech A: advanced combat rifle
tech B: --
tech C: gauss rifle

what do the lasers do that the assault rifle doesn't? and vice versa? and the same for the ACR. why would a soldier carry a laser carbine or laser rifle instead of an assault rifle, or an ACR instead of a laser rifle?
Book 4 offers a short little intro on the picture of the soldier near the beginning. He's carrying a laser and it touches on the detail of the equipment he's carrying and why.

In some campaigns lasers might be silent and invisible, while others offer them as buzzing and visible. So a silent sniper (xray lasers in GURPS Traveller) could be an advantage depending on the situation, etc.
__________________
No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Most plans don't even survive contact with reality.

Thanks, Gadrin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 26th, 2007, 12:28 PM
far-trader far-trader is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Regina Subsector aka SK, Canada ;-)
Posts: 13,724
Gallery : 12
Visit far-trader's Blog
far-trader Citizen
Default

Of course the biggest reason for a laser over a common firearm (including gauss weapons) is recoil. Lasers have zero recoil which is very important when fighting in zero-g.

So, mtu, ship-troops generally use lasers while gro-pos generally use firearms.

Other mtu factors include:

Logistics of ammunition. Recharge a laser powerpack just about anywhere or tote thousands of rounds of ammo per soldier across the sector, it's your call. Mercenaries love lasers.

Target designation as mentioned. Very handy for calling ortillery (some mercs but typically Marines) or even for pointing out strikes by close air support (gro-pos).

Penetration of shot. Lasers are superior to all others.

Silent and invisible (mostly). Lasers are perfect sniper weapons (see also next note). All firearms have at least a minimal signature or a shortened range for being rendered low signature but lasers are practically inaudible and can't be seen without special gear.

Fast and flat. No trajectory to factor into aiming and no wind drift to be concerned about make them excellent long range weapons. And the time to target is practically instant so no last second duck or turn of the head to spoil the shot.

High damage lethality (warning - graphic violence). You might survive a bullet to the head (the skull is hard and bullets are funny) but you won't fare well at all with a smoking hole burned clean through the same skull and the flash heat explosion of the soft tissue inside.

Durability. Contrary to the otu my laser weapons are rugged. At least as hardy as firearms.

Finally mtu also has cartridge using lasers at slightly higher TLs than the powerpack ones. The downside is maintaining the logistics of ammo supply and fewer shots between reloads. All the other pluses are still there.

Now, to flip the question, why would anyone use firearms instead of lasers?

Lasers don't do suppression fire.

Lasers don't do autofire.

Lasers are generally heavier so you can't carry a bunch of other gear.

Lasers really suck in wet atmospheres.
__________________
Dan "far-trader" Burns

Original material in this post may be employed for personal non-profit use with the origin noted. Any other use is subject to permission from the author. Contact me through the private message feature of this board.

Fund Rare Bard Rants - Donate your unused rants today!

Musings of an old Trader... (my CotI Travellog) updated - May 3 2012
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 27th, 2007, 09:02 AM
atpollard's Avatar
atpollard atpollard is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 9,414
Gallery : 43
Visit atpollard's Blog
atpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesomeatpollard Awesome
Default

Far Trader.
Congratulations. That is the finest analysis of laser vs. projectile weapons that I have ever read. It is the first time I have seen a legitimate reason for BOTH weapons to exist.

Most discussions tend to focus on a single benefit or difficulty which supports the conclusion that one weapon would exist and the other relegated to a museum piece.

Well done.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 28th, 2007, 01:29 AM
flykiller's Avatar
flykiller flykiller is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: desert
Posts: 6,887
Gallery : 114
flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++
Default

fairly thorough analysis by far-trader. considering also limitations imposed by aerosols and reflec it seems that for ground infantry lasers will be special-purpose support weapons, with an expanded role in zero-G.

as for merc logistics favoring lasers, I can't see it. a dton can hold a large amount of small arms ammo, and if a merc unit needs more than that then I can't see lasers making much of a difference. besides, lasers have their own logistics problems. 50 shots max followed by a run back to the power plant might be a fatal limitation in some circumstances.

Last edited by flykiller; August 28th, 2007 at 01:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 28th, 2007, 02:40 AM
ChalkLine ChalkLine is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 97
Gallery : 0
ChalkLine Citizen
Default

Lasers can have a higher rate of fire, for some reason in the OTU manpack guns just don't.

In MT you can get a TL13 0.5Mw pulse laser that only weighs 30kg (75% of a .50cal machinegun) that has a rate of fire of 80. A fuel cell to run the gun on water will only hit you up another 15kg.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 28th, 2007, 03:07 AM
flykiller's Avatar
flykiller flykiller is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: desert
Posts: 6,887
Gallery : 114
flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++flykiller Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Lasers can have a higher rate of fire, for some reason in the OTU manpack guns just don't.
well, 50 shots from a backpack laser at tech 8 and 9 is pretty good.
Quote:
In MT you can get a TL13 0.5Mw pulse laser that only weighs 30kg (75% of a .50cal machinegun) that has a rate of fire of 80.
book 4 mentions a pulse gatling laser at tech 10 ....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FF&S / FF&S Small Arms issues? Scott Martin The Lone Star 6 July 24th, 2007 01:22 PM
T20 design question: Small vehicle-like objects archhealer T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 10 October 8th, 2006 02:05 PM
MegaTraveller small arms design mctesla MegaTraveller 14 August 14th, 2006 05:50 PM
Book 2 Small Craft Design robject Classic Traveller 57 May 17th, 2006 10:21 PM
The Future of Small Arms Todg Ship's Locker 147 April 22nd, 2006 12:55 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.