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  #41  
Old July 14th, 2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
The travel times issue begins to skirt the question of whether we want to think in terms of a B2-only "small-ship" setting, or a HG2-compatible "large-ship" setting.
I would go with Book 2, with the sole exception of using Book 5 for small craft design.
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  #42  
Old July 14th, 2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
A first pass at mapping the subsectors of the federation:
Can they be packed in a little tighter? Say, maybe a 5 subsector by 5 subsector layout (or a 5 down x 6 across), with a single, dense core subsector (or two, if 5 x 6) where the two original factions competed and now live as one polity, with the surrounding 8 (or 10) subsectors as a standard-density mix of member and non-member worlds (as per the source text), and the surrounding 16 (to 18) subsectors as thinnning out to sparse-density Wilds, but in places parts of other polities?

Interstellar boundaries could be non-polygonal as well, with tendrils of Federation member worlds weaving their way outwards, and pockets or short mains of non-member worlds interposed and intertwined among them.

I kind of want to keep the charted space part of the master map relatively compact, for communication purposes as previously mentioned, and also so that the PCs might feasibly be able to Travel to any part of it before they go completely broke and/or die of old age.

But still, over half of the big map can remain under-settled and under-explored edges for development (and alien contact, etc.) as needed.

And of course, all we need to flesh out to begin with is the one "starting" "fringe" subsector.
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  #43  
Old July 14th, 2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
I would go with LBB1-3.

The edition makes a difference too since ships that can be built under 77 rules can not be built using 81.
I do not know that we need to drill down to the level of individual ship designs any time soon, so that real and consequential difference is not a particularly big issue now (if ever).

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At jump six you are still looking at three to four jumps to get from the capital to the frontier subsectors, while travelling from one edge to the other is going to be six to seven jumps.

Lower jump numbers will mean longer voyages naturally, and there is the time between jumps to take into account too.
Note that although B2 lets J-5 in at TL11 as a practical matter, as per B3 you still have to wait until TL15 to feasibly get to J-6 with B2 drives, and even at our top-end here of TL12, J-4 is a practical limit on moving personnel around, with J-3 (or even J-2) usually being more cost-effective for hauling materiel interstellar distances up until TL13.
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  #44  
Old July 15th, 2019, 01:58 AM
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I thought we said ships could wait lol.
400t packet 77 design
hull 400t
bridge 20t
computer 5t
j drive M 65t
m drive C 5t
pp C 10t
fuel 250t
crew 24t (pnmeee)
passengers 16t
cargo 5t
These are for communication purposes only. Cargo, freight and passenger carriers will have to be lower jump numbers as you say.
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  #45  
Old July 15th, 2019, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
Can they be packed in a little tighter? Say, maybe a 5 subsector by 5 subsector layout (or a 5 down x 6 across), with a single, dense core subsector (or two, if 5 x 6) where the two original factions competed and now live as one polity, with the surrounding 8 (or 10) subsectors as a standard-density mix of member and non-member worlds (as per the source text), and the surrounding 16 (to 18) subsectors as thinnning out to sparse-density Wilds, but in places parts of other polities?
I picked an average world density of 30 per subsector, which means 10+ subsectors to give the 300_ worlds described, there will be spill over into the frontier subsectors. Making a couple of dense core subsectors you say...

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Interstellar boundaries could be non-polygonal as well, with tendrils of Federation member worlds weaving their way outwards, and pockets or short mains of non-member worlds interposed and intertwined among them.
Yup. it shouldn't be too neat, but this is a broad overview. The critical subsectors are the ones on the frontier where the players will be doing their stuff.

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I kind of want to keep the charted space part of the master map relatively compact, for communication purposes as previously mentioned, and also so that the PCs might feasibly be able to Travel to any part of it before they go completely broke and/or die of old age.
Should be doable for any character with Travellers'.

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But still, over half of the big map can remain under-settled and under-explored edges for development (and alien contact, etc.) as needed.
Once beyond the border subsectors there is plenty of scope for exploration

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And of course, all we need to flesh out to begin with is the one "starting" "fringe" subsector.
Completely agree.
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  #46  
Old July 15th, 2019, 06:42 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
I thought we said ships could wait lol.
400t packet 77 design
hull 400t
bridge 20t
computer 5t
j drive M 65t
m drive C 5t
pp C 10t
fuel 250t
crew 24t (pnmeee)
passengers 16t
cargo 5t
These are for communication purposes only. Cargo, freight and passenger carriers will have to be lower jump numbers as you say.
Unfortunately, this design isn't valid under CT '81 or Starter CT (and probably not TTB), as the PP is too small.
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  #47  
Old July 15th, 2019, 12:09 PM
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It is valid as a 77 design though, which is why I said edition matters. Under 81 you would max out at jump 5 as you say, unless drop tanks are a thing for these...
travel times at jump 5 or jump 6 are not going to vary much when you are looking at, there will be a couple of extra jumps at jump 5.

Anyway let's get back to the frontier subsector setting itself, referees can decide which ship rules they will use
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  #48  
Old July 15th, 2019, 12:28 PM
boomslang boomslang is offline
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Anyway let's get back to the frontier subsector setting itself.
So, these two pocket empires who were rivals, but ended up setting aside their differences to form the original covenant of the Moladon Federation: a couple of ground-floor considerations come to mind.

1. Were they both Humaniti cultures, or was one a different Major Race? I am inclined to keep it simple and make them both Human, reserving the Aliens to be a value-add for the outland subsectors of the MolaFed.

2. What was the difference that had to be reconciled? Property rights? Psionic powers? Meritocracy versus Oligarchy? Theology versus Philosophy? Individual versus Collective Rights? What, exactly, set them apart from each other, but had to be bridged? I have some ideas about making either Psi or Gov the sticking point, but am open to any thoughtful suggestions.
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  #49  
Old July 15th, 2019, 02:04 PM
Brandon C Brandon C is offline
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Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
So, these two pocket empires who were rivals, but ended up setting aside their differences to form the original covenant of the Moladon Federation: a couple of ground-floor considerations come to mind.

1. Were they both Humaniti cultures, or was one a different Major Race? I am inclined to keep it simple and make them both Human, reserving the Aliens to be a value-add for the outland subsectors of the MolaFed.

2. What was the difference that had to be reconciled? Property rights? Psionic powers? Meritocracy versus Oligarchy? Theology versus Philosophy? Individual versus Collective Rights? What, exactly, set them apart from each other, but had to be bridged? I have some ideas about making either Psi or Gov the sticking point, but am open to any thoughtful suggestions.
1. Both human seems simplest.

2. Government seems best, with the two sides not radically apart (ie, not participating democracy vs charismatic theocracy).

And this brings up:

3. Why did they form a federation? I am inclined to use the trusty "external threat", either a human pocket empire with a radically different government or an aggressive alien pocket empire (I favor aslan or k'kree). Actually, the Zhodani work, if we assume they were thoroughly defeated. This would justify a cultural dislike for those with Psi; are they mutant humans or remnants of the Zhodani, plotting to overthrow the federation?
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  #50  
Old July 15th, 2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon C View Post
2. Government seems best, with the two sides not radically apart (ie, not participating democracy vs charismatic theocracy).
In this model, I am thinking feudal technocracy versus participatory democracy. As both polities grew in population and territory, the former began sliding into oligarchy and the latter into an unmanageable mess. So they ended up talking each other into meeting in the middle -- perhaps with a form of representative democracy where each level of representation (local, regional, continental, planetary, system) selects who will represent it at the next higher level, culminating in the President Pro Tem or Secretary-General or whatever of the interstellar governing body.

In lieu of conventional proxies, this Senate/Parliament/Congress/Assembly/whatever uses a ranked-choice voting methodology, with each representative getting a number of votes equal to their mainworld's Pop digit, to spread around as they like in support of or opposition to resolutions before the body. This vote-splitting should also create a dynamic political forum without our relying on multi-world political parties to keep it lively. Votes of No Confidence may be called at any level of this RepDem hierarchy, except the very bottom, where elections are scheduled to recur on a regular basis.

Just a (rough) thought...

Quote:
And this brings up:

3. Why did they form a federation?
Economics. More efficient, more productive, more stable, more resilient. One market, one currency, one set of regulatory standards. Higher quality of life for all concerned.

See also one of my favorite thought experiments, Ken Pick's monograph on the qualitative shifts implied by Tech Levels, which suggests that it is a mistake to try an advance beyond TL11 without a functional, ubiquitous interstellar government. (It takes a robust, developed society to accommodate things like PGMPs and AIs, yet remain standing for long.)

Hence the MolaFed advancing on to early TL12, while its (frankly, behind the curve) neighbors are just now barely able to climb out of their own gravity wells without relying on -- Sol help me -- rockets, for Goodness' Sake.
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