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Old March 26th, 2019, 09:56 AM
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Lightbulb Winging it!

Can't lie, I try and keep combat to a minimum and when I do run it, can't lie I kinda wing it, but with minis.

Keeping with that idea, it gonna be the more abstract one and it will have more crappy diagrams sketched up on the iPad for everyone to know where they are, where cover and/or concealment is, where the badguys are, stuff like that. Oh and of course range. I tend toward a narrativist method in combat.

Now weapons wise, can't lie I'm kinda terrible at them so that's gonna need a minute whilst I peruse the rules again. And I think check Greg's Cirque campaign since pretty sure we had a discussion about stunners, so I think it has some T5 stunners.

Off the top of my head:

Hunter Joe's Arms Emporium - Non-Lethal - Stunners.
  • Items & Prices: They'll run from a cheap ass taser box, ie the handheld stun gun of the 80s for around Cr 50 to high end, multi-shot, wired tasers for around Cr 150-200. Cr 500 gets you the sonic stunner (S-stunner), or for the big spender a neural stunner (N-stunner) and not an electric one for Cr 1000.
  • Replacements (Consumables): Batteries or wires/darts scale in price similarly with a battery for the stun gun running Cr 5, a battery and replacement wire/dart sets at Cr 17 for the taser, a battery at Cr 50 for the sonic stunner, and Cr 135 for the neurostunner.
  • Mass: Ranges around 0.2 Kg for the stungun, 0.35 Kg for the taser, and 0.5 Kg for the S-stunner, and 0.57 Kg for the N-stunner.
  • Holsters & Rigs: Holsters and rigs go from cheap nylon ballistic cloth to hand tooled leather, prices range from Cr 25 to Cr 750.
  • Damage: stungun 2D (Pain/stun), taser 1D Pen (darts)/2D (Pain/stun), sonic stunner 4D (Sound/stun). and neurostunner 5D (Neuro*/stun).
  • Rentals: Cr 5/day for the stungun, Cr 12/day for the taser, Cr 20/day for the sonic stunner. Deposit of Cr 100 which includes warranty (standard use and wear) and is refunded minus rental fees upon turn-in of the rental item. Neurostunners are not available for rental.

EDIT: * Neurostunners hit Int and Dex with prolonged damage possibly affecting Edu. Basically it slows active thought and disrupts the neurological system (Int) which results in loss of motor control (hence the Dex hits).

FURTHER EDITS: Okay, I hit my copy of the T5 rules and it looks like Electric does straight up Hits and not Stun. On the other hand there is the Pain category which does, as does Magnetic (though that seems more toward machine life), Stench, and Sound.

Just off the top of my head. But this should give you a baseline.
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Last edited by Magnus von Thornwood; March 26th, 2019 at 01:02 PM..
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  #62  
Old March 26th, 2019, 11:14 AM
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Default

Went through the list of 1001 Gunmaker Guns. Not for the faint of heart! No stunners, nothing with the words "stun" or "neuro" in it. Only stuff that looked possibly maybe non-lethal were weapons of Shock, Flash, Sound, or (my favorite!) Stench. Thought about possibilities of Gas, for sleep gas, but seemed like they could all work just as well for poison gas, so those paranoid Bohen folks would ban them. Checked the Gunmaker Descriptors list in the T5 PDF, and the only one that allows Tranq damage is a Dart Rifle or Carbine. I guess Dart Pistols aren't allowed, and all of the other Tranq ammo types from Classic Traveller have been forgotten.

No Neuro damage, either lethal or non.

I could rant at great length just about T5 Guns and Gunmaker, but I'll stop with what's currently relevant for us.

Magnus, I think we need a little guidance here about these "stunners"...




* oh, come on, the Body and Snub descriptors? Really?

Edit: well, heck, my snoozing has messed me up again,
I see that Mags has now posted everything I could possibly
want to know about buying stunners from Hunter Joe!
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Last edited by SpaceBadger; March 26th, 2019 at 11:28 AM.. Reason: B10 again!
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  #63  
Old March 26th, 2019, 12:10 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
/snippity/

Magnus, I think we need a little guidance here about these "stunners"... :confused

/snip/

Edit: well, heck, my snoozing has messed me up again,
I see that Mags has now posted everything I could possibly
want to know about buying stunners from Hunter Joe!
The Ref shoots! HE SCORES! The crow goes wild!

Glad that works. Also, added a note on Neuro Damage.
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  #64  
Old March 26th, 2019, 04:19 PM
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Cool Types of Stun Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus von Thornwood View Post
[*]Damage: stungun 2D (Pain/stun), taser 1D Pen (darts)/2D (Pain/stun), sonic stunner 4D (Sound/stun). and neurostunner 5D (Neuro*/stun).

EDIT: * Neurostunners hit Int and Dex with prolonged damage possibly affecting Edu. Basically it slows active thought and disrupts the neurological system (Int) which results in loss of motor control (hence the Dex hits).

FURTHER EDITS: Okay, I hit my copy of the T5 rules and it looks like Electric does straight up Hits and not Stun. On the other hand there is the Pain category which does, as does Magnetic (though that seems more toward machine life), Stench, and Sound.
I dunno, I think we're really on our own for making up any kind of Stun damage for T5 besides the basic Tranq, which is apparently limited only to Darts fired from Rifles or Carbines.

Nothing in there that I see to show that either Sonic or Electric do Stun damage, except that we want them to do it because Sonic Stunners are an SF standard, and we have Real World evidence that Electric Stun works (tasers, "stunguns").

I don't even see the damage types you mentioned for Pain and Neuro, but they make sense and I have no objection to you adding them, in fact I encourage it. Frank would never use a Pain setting on his weapon to coerce, subdue, or Stun a prisoner/suspect... unless it was Really Important for Saving Innocent Lives... but others throughout history right up to the present have been less scrupulous, and sadly I see no reason to expect that to change.

Previous Traveller editions have had Neural Activity Sensing, followed by Neural Stunner and Neural Blaster weapons, derived from anti-psi research. Sounds good to me! <Voice="Tevye">Tradition, Tradition!</Voice>
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  #65  
Old March 26th, 2019, 08:45 PM
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Red face Uh...about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
I dunno, I think we're really on our own for making up any kind of Stun damage for T5 besides the basic Tranq, which is apparently limited only to Darts fired from Rifles or Carbines.

Nothing in there that I see to show that either Sonic or Electric do Stun damage, except that we want them to do it because Sonic Stunners are an SF standard, and we have Real World evidence that Electric Stun works (tasers, "stunguns").

I don't even see the damage types you mentioned for Pain and Neuro, but they make sense and I have no objection to you adding them, in fact I encourage it. Frank would never use a Pain setting on his weapon to coerce, subdue, or Stun a prisoner/suspect... unless it was Really Important for Saving Innocent Lives... but others throughout history right up to the present have been less scrupulous, and sadly I see no reason to expect that to change.

Previous Traveller editions have had Neural Activity Sensing, followed by Neural Stunner and Neural Blaster weapons, derived from anti-psi research. Sounds good to me! <Voice="Tevye">Tradition, Tradition!</Voice>
That might be relying Dev docs...oops, but trust me on this one, for the Damage Types that do Stun. The neuro though I totes made up on the fly. The closest is Psi, which this isn't...I think.

Also points for the Trevye reference.
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Seventh Captain of the Imperial Guard, CO (O3) D Trp/3 Sqdn/4518th LIR,
Duke of Sinta, Count Smoug, Viscount Alell, Musayid, & Nii Khu, Marquis Malory & Phlume, Baron Donu-na,
Knight Retainer of the Emperor for Salla, Inarli, & Bhuur,
Knight Retainer of the Baron Jacha, Knight Retainer of the Baronet Kiind,
Knight of the Third Imperium for Trane,
Travellers' Aid Society Member #0543.

Thornwood-Daarnulud LLC

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  #66  
Old March 27th, 2019, 06:20 AM
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Default More babble about stunners

Just noticed the electrolaser stunner got dropped in the transfer of stun weapons over to the GEAR thread. No big deal if you don't like them, I've just always thought they were a cool idea. Here are a few notes in case you are still willing to reconsider:
  • Electrolaser stunner operates as a low-powered pulse laser pistol, not powerful enough to do any damage more than a slight skin burn, won't even ignite paper. The trick is that right on top of the laser pulse the pistol emits a bolt of electricity that follows the ionization trail of the laser to hit and Stun the target, like a Taser without the wires.
    -
  • Necessary tech to make Electrolaser is a pulse laser that can fit into a pistol, plus energy storage to power both the laser and the electric stun bolt. Maybe same TL as laser pistol, maybe one TL lower since the laser doesn't need killing power, only enough to make the ionized path through atmosphere?
    -
  • I think Electrolaser stunner fits about the same niche as Sonic stunner. Both are better than Taser bc they don't need darts/wires, so can keep shooting as long as energy cell holds out. Both probably have a little better range than Taser (no wires), but not too great. Both require atmosphere to function at range but could probably work by direct contact in vacuum. Electrolaser has problems in rain or fog or any situation that might detour the electric bolt from its path; these same conditions might also interfere with a Sonic beam.
    -
  • I think the Neuro stunner is probably a better weapon than either Electrolaser or Sonic. Well, actually the Neuro beam is totally made up, so it can have whatever properties you want it to have, but if we are saying that it is the newer, high TL, more expensive version, then it should have some advantages: longer range, more accurate, works in vacuum, not as vulnerable to atmospheric interference, whatever you think appropriate.


Edit: and if, as you say, Electric damage isn't supposed to cause Stun... well, we know damn well that it should, unless Tasers and stunguns in current usage are Not Real? As Hans Rancke used to say, "It also has to make sense."
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Last edited by SpaceBadger; March 27th, 2019 at 01:26 PM..
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  #67  
Old March 27th, 2019, 01:16 PM
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Default Stun Baton from another game

OK, I was just looking at stuff I had written up for another campaign over on Obsidian Portal 4 years ago, and found this Stun Baton. This was written for Mongoose Traveller, but of course could be translated, and seems just the thing a Ranger like Frank would carry. (Actually, I notice that I said in his character description that he always carries something non-lethal, so if we hadn't already gone through all this business about Hunter Joe's I'd argue that he should already have a good advanced TL stunner (neuro?), but I guess he had a brain cramp and left it up on the Clever.)

Anyway, for your viewing pleasure:

Stun Baton TL-8
baton club melee stun weapon
Combines functions of Club and Stunstick in pocket-sized weapon

Category: weapon (melee)

Description:
Unlike the standard TL-8 Stunstick, this baton telescopes for easier pocket storage, About 3cm in diameter (convenient for gripping in hand) a flick of the wrist telescopes its length from 10cm out to 50cm, High density inserts also enhance its mass (especially at the tip) to make it the equivalent of a Club for Melee fighting. In addition to the usual 2d6 Club damage, the Stun Baton provides a shock effect similar to the Stunstick, adding 2d6 Stun damage and requiring a roll against Endurance to avoid being stunned.

The Stun effect will also work with a sharp tap that does not cause any physical damage, although mere touching will not trigger it. The handle/grip is the only part insulated against the Stun effect, rendering such show-off habits as slapping the baton against oneís thigh or opposing hand ill-advised (although somewhat humorous for observers).

TL-8, mass 1kg, cost Cr 300
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GM Maxim #2: If the Players have any kind of Ship, deckplans are mandatory. Otherwise, the Players will wander around with vague and contradictory notions of where things are, and Chaos results.

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  #68  
Old March 27th, 2019, 01:27 PM
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Question

Very Important Question for GM: Is the Sonic Stunner a narrow beam to hit one person, or more like a shotgun, also potentially hitting adjacent targets? Or, better yet, adjustable between the two modes? Seems reasonable to me, and a good reason for possibly choosing one over other options.

Edit: Oh, and LEOs would especially like one that would fire continuously rather than in single shots, so they could spray it like a fire hose. Hey, it's a Stunner, it's non-lethal. So somebody wakes up with a puking migraine, big deal, give 'em a shot of Medical. (Magnus, you're a Vorkosigan fan, you're familiar with the hilarious round of stunner-tag inside the Thames tidal barrier in Brothers in Arms, right?)
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Playing Engineer Ank Buchannon in flykiller's Imperial Scout Rescue Service PbP


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  #69  
Old March 27th, 2019, 02:15 PM
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Cool Memory Plastic Knife

And here - written up for that same campaign, although IIRC it originally comes from a published GDW CT adventure - is the Memory Plastic Knife like Frank gave Dabi. FYI, OOC, Frank habitually carries three of these in that combat knife size, in the ration bar wrappings. These are also balanced for throwing (Frank liked to read RAH's Tunnel in the Sky when he was a kid; one reason he went into Scouts). Frank also has a larger one, like a small machete or shortsword, what Traveller would call a Blade.

Memory Plastic Knife
knife plastic undetectable weapon
Blob of memory plastic resumes knife shape when tapped.

Category: weapon (melee)

Description:
Memory Plastic Knife: Resembling a blob of shapeless plastic (although it may be molded somewhat into simple shapes), this resin/fiber weapon resumes its shape as a very hard, very sharp knife upon being rapped sharply against a hard surface.

To return the knife to blob form, it must be heated above 100 Celsius, as in a microwave oven, pot of boiling water, or direct exposure to fire (the plastic is extremely fire-resistant to much higher temperatures). The softened plastic may be worked with tools or molds into different shapes, or as it cools but is still soft may be molded by hand into rougher shapes. When rapped hard, it will always return to its original knife shape.

Different forms and sizes of knives (or other tools) may be made of this same material, but the base form must be set when first manufactured, and the blob will always return to that base form when rapped hard.

Common base forms are combat knife, dagger, throwing knife, blade (large blob) , machete (even larger blob).

TL-9, mass 0.5kg, cost Cr300
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Playing Engineer Ank Buchannon in flykiller's Imperial Scout Rescue Service PbP


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  #70  
Old March 27th, 2019, 02:38 PM
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Default Grenade Options: Non-Lethal!!!

As I mentioned before, I wrote these for an MgT game, but I'm sure someone who understands T5 better than I do could convert them.

Grenades: More Options
crowd-control flashbang gas grenades
More Grenades: Gas, Crowd-Control, Flashbang

Category: weapon (ranged)

Description:
Grenades: Gas, Crowd-Control, Flashbang


Mongoose Traveller has a few varieties of grenades in its Core rules (Frag, Smoke, Stun, and Anti-Laser Aerosol) and adds a few more in MgT Mercenary (Incendiary, EMP, and Plasma) but is lacking somewhat in effective non-lethal options.

Borrowing from other versions of Traveller, we can come up with more interesting and useful options:

Gas TL-5 Ranged(thrown) Varies mass(0.5) radius(6m) cost(varies)
Crowd-Control TL-7 Ranged(thrown) Varies mass(0.5) radius(6m) cost(varies)
FlashBang TL-6 Ranged(thrown) Varies mass(0.5) radius(6m) cost(15)


Gas: Gas grenades can be of many varieties, as many as the GM or Players can think of and the GM will approve.
  • Blackout Gas isnít opaque like Smoke, but might as well be for those within its cloud of effect, who are blinded for 3d6+3 minutes.
    -
  • Tranquilizer gas would have the same effect as being hit with a Tranq round.
    -
  • Riot-control gasses often have nasty effects such as tear-gas or vomit-gas.
    -
  • Nerve Toxins may vary from temporary paralysis to permanent death.

Crowd-Control: While the gas from a Gas grenade must usually be breathed or at least have skin contact to be effective, these other crowd-control grenades work on anyone, even in vaccsuits or armor.
  • Banana-Goo: This yellowish oil, smelling faintly of bananas, spread out over the area of effect and makes everything very very VERY slippery. Saves vs Dex (or Acrobatics) are necessary just to stay on oneís feet, much less try to walk anywhere, and running? No way. Does require gravity for maximum effect.
    -
  • Tangler: spreads sticky substance over area of effect, which hardens within a few seconds to a tough rubbery substance, hindering movement. A direct hit on a person may render that person immobile as he/she is completely wrapped in rubbery strands.
    -
  • Banana-Glue: A combination of the two above effects, first slippery, then sticky, then rubbery. Subjects tend to fall down and then can't get up.
Flash-Bang: These venerable tools of SWAT and Forced-Entry teams for millenia are still good for what they do. Anyone within the area of effect without eye-flash protection (or explicitly looking the other way) will be blinded for 3d6+3 minutes. Anyone within the area of effect without hearing protection takes 2d6 Stun (usual Endurance roll to avoid effects) and will be deafened for 3d6+3 minutes. (Note that these are not very effective against persons in Vaccsuits, Combat Armor, or BattleDress as all of these usually have flash and hearing protections built in.)
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Playing ex-Ranger Frank Masuda in Magnus's Permatic Imperium T5 PbP
Playing Engineer Ank Buchannon in flykiller's Imperial Scout Rescue Service PbP


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