Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Mongoose Traveller

Mongoose Traveller Discussion forums for the Traveller rules from Mongoose Publishing.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 19th, 2010, 03:03 PM
gloriousbattle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Default Why all the hatas hatin' on MGT?

I always had something of a love-hate relationship with Classic Traveller.

Things I hated:

1. High Guard

2. Advanced character generation

3. No aliens (though they did, of course, correct this later)

4. Pocket Empires

and several things more.

However, in the last analysis, I love the game, largely because the system is so easily customizable. I threw out a lot of the GDW stuff, incorporated a lot of stuff from other companies (high among them the now defunct and sorely missed Phoenix Games), wrote some of my own stuff, and, in the end, came out with something that I really love.

Now, it seems to me that Mongoose Traveller is 90% the same game as was Classic Traveller. I have taken a pretty close look at the rules, and, yes, there is a change in flavor which will not be to everyone's liking, but it seems to me to be a valiant effort at updating an old favorite, while fixing many of the things that were broken about the original system.

Not trying to start a flamewar, just interested in a genuine dialogue.

Y u b hatin' hatas?

Last edited by kafka47; September 21st, 2010 at 03:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old September 19th, 2010, 03:28 PM
rancke's Avatar
rancke rancke is offline
Absent Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 12,238
Gallery : 11
rancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloriousbattle View Post
Now, it seems to me that Mongoose Traveller is 90% the same game as was Classic Traveller. I have taken a pretty close look at the rules, and, yes, there is a change in flavor which will not be to everyone's liking, but it seems to me to be a valiant effort at updating an old favorite, while fixing many of the things that were broken about the original system.

Not trying to start a flamewar, just interested in a genuine dialogue.

Y u b hatin' hatas?
The confusion arise from the mistaken belief that one cannot critize any aspect of Mongoose's products unless you hate them. This belief is mistaken.


Hans
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 19th, 2010, 03:34 PM
gloriousbattle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancke2 View Post
The confusion arise from the mistaken belief that one cannot critize any aspect of Mongoose's products unless you hate them. This belief is mistaken.


Hans
Which is why I said I'm not looking for a flamewar. Still, many of the old guard do seem a bit... "miffed?", at the new Traveller.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 19th, 2010, 04:15 PM
RandyB RandyB is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 439
Gallery : 0
RandyB Citizen
Default

It is sufficiently different that it represents change, and grognards despise change; none more so than Traveller grognards.

And I am with Hans - there can be (and are) legitimate criticisms of MGT that do not constitute "hate", but there is, I perceive, attitude displayed by some that goes beyond those legitimate criticisms. Hence the "hunting season is over" post by the mods.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 19th, 2010, 05:37 PM
captainjack's Avatar
captainjack captainjack is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 662
Gallery : 0
captainjack Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
It is sufficiently different that it represents change, and some grognards despise change; none more so than some Traveller grognards.

And I am with Hans - there can be (and are) legitimate criticisms of MGT that do not constitute "hate", but there is, I perceive, attitude displayed by some that goes beyond those legitimate criticisms. Hence the "hunting season is over" post by the mods.

I fixed your post........

Why all the hatas hatin on all us grognards ? Did I ever take a shot at y'all ?


One or four posters have a hate on for MGT; similarly one or four have a hate on for CT.....and then there's TNE and T4. Each edition post MT (and arguably including MT) has their share of "newer is better" glitterbois, and "no change is good change" mugwumps. Plus, over time, grudges accumulate, and the truly dysfunctional holders also accumulate. Difference is, this edition burst forth into a universe that has a much more sophisticated and accessible fan communication and annoyance system. So, the loonies get a big soapbox, where once they had to post on Genie or mimeograph fanzines. Both of which required subscription.

Its not Grognards vs Malenfants*, but rather Jerks and Loons vs the rest of us. My 2cr.



*Not a personal attack, per se. The "Malenfant" was the counterpart to the "Grognard" in Napoleonic times: the Grognards (Old grumblers) were the old guard who opposed all change from the ancient regime, the Malenfants (Bad infants) the fanbois of the new uber alles; that a certain anti-grognard poster adopted the name is his own business, but nonetheless amusing....
__________________
_________________
Captainjack23, KOD
Marquis d'Remulak, Sol 1833

My Traveller, OD&D and obsessive game design Blog:

Crawdads and Dragons

Current development projects
Adventurer What if Original D&D was written for traveller !
Bricks and Basilisks: RPG Gaming with <ahem> modular and trademarked brick construction system minifigs !

I think the true measure of virtue is not how we treat people when they give us what we want,
but how we treat people when we are denied that.

Last edited by captainjack; September 20th, 2010 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: Smart pants mr Randy B....;)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 19th, 2010, 06:18 PM
RandyB RandyB is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 439
Gallery : 0
RandyB Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
I fixed your post........

Why all the hatas hatin on all us grognards ? Did I ever take a shot at y'all ?
The operational (connotative) definition of "grognard" that I am using included "antipathy to any change" as a key element. Obviously, yours is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
One or four posters have a hate on for MGT; similarly one or four have a hate on for CT.....and then there's TNE and T4. Each edition post MT (and arguably including MT) has their share of "newer is better" glitterbois, and "no change is good change" mugwumps. Plus, over time, grudges accumulate, and the truly dysfunctional holders also accumulate. Difference is, this edition burst forth into a universe that has a much more sophisticated and accessible fan communication and annoyance system. So, the loonies get a big soapbox, where once they had to post on Genie or mimeograph fanzines. Both of which required subscription.
Fixed yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
Its not Grognards vs Malenfants*, but rather Jerks and Loons vs the rest of us. My 2cr.



*Not a personal attack, per se. The "Malenfant" was the counterpart to the "Grognard" in Napoleonic times: the Grognards (Old grumblers) were the old guard who opposed all change from the ancient regime, the Malenfants (Bad infants) the fanbois of the new uber alles; that a certain anti-grognard poster adopted the name is his own business, but nonetheless amusing....
Quite historically accurate, in both paragraphs.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 19th, 2010, 06:30 PM
rancke's Avatar
rancke rancke is offline
Absent Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 12,238
Gallery : 11
rancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizenrancke Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
The operational (connotative) definition of "grognard" that I am using included "antipathy to any change" as a key element. Obviously, yours is different.
As used in Traveller circles, the word simply means an old-timer -- someone who has been involved with the game for a long time. We get it from the war-gaming community, where it means an experienced wargamer.


Hans
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 19th, 2010, 07:05 PM
HG_B HG_B is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,049
Gallery : 3
HG_B Citizen+HG_B Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloriousbattle View Post
Which is why I said I'm not looking for a flamewar. Still, many of the old guard do seem a bit... "miffed?", at the new Traveller.
I haven't noticed that. I have noticed the same type of critiquing that occurred with MT was released, TNE, etc.
__________________
The shortest distance between two points isn't a straight line. It does involve precisely folding the graph paper.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 19th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Supplement Four's Avatar
Supplement Four Supplement Four is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 9,343
Gallery : 0
Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloriousbattle View Post
Now, it seems to me that Mongoose Traveller is 90% the same game as was Classic Traveller. I have taken a pretty close look at the rules, and, yes, there is a change in flavor which will not be to everyone's liking, but it seems to me to be a valiant effort at updating an old favorite, while fixing many of the things that were broken about the original system.

Not trying to start a flamewar, just interested in a genuine dialogue.
For me, it's the flavor (since the core mechanic is 90% what I developed for the game nearly 2 years before MGT was published) of Mongoose Traveller.

It's like the original Star Wars trilogy and the Prequels. The two trilogies definitely have a different taste. As much as I try to embrace the prequels, they don't have whatever it is that attracts me so strongly to the original series.

I liked all the characters in the original trilogy. I couldn't stand Hayden Christensen as an actor before he got the part to play Anakin. I didn't like Jake Lloyd as young Anakin, either. I love Natalie Portman, but other than in The Phantom Menace, I think it's her worst work.

The pod race was boring--it didn't fill me with awe like I was the first time I saw the Star Destroyer fly over head, the Death Star, or Vader's humongus Star Destroyer. Episode VI's speeder bike chase was much more interesting.

I can't stand all the sillyness in the Prequels (don't like the Ewoks, either), with Jar-Jar in the big fight in TPM. Loved the attack on the Death Star in ANH, especially Luke's trench run on the Death Star. But, young Anakin's flying against the Trade Federation is just plain dumb.

I love the mystique of the Force in the original trilogy, then TPM comes along and screws that up with midichlorians.

The only real cool thing in the prequels, Darth Maul, they kill in the first movie (he should have been the heavy throughout the prequel series, with Anakin killing him, replacing him, and turning to the Dark Side as Vader).

I loved the trashcompactor scene in ANH, but yawned at the elevator shaft scene in RotS.

I thought the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth were exceptional, where I don't even know the names of the battles in the prequels....there seemed to be no "heart" to them, like there was in the original trilogy--nobody to "care for".

I could go on...but you understand all the differences, yet it's still all Star Wars?

That's the way I feel about Mongoose's treatment of Traveller. Their Traveller is more action oriented. It feels more like D&D in space. I look at the awesome realism of the Dietrick pics, and then I look at the vibrant D&D gnolls that are supposed to be Vargr...and I think of all the silly, impossible looking aliens in Star Wars (I never liked some of them from the original trilogy either, like the blue elephant--how stupid).

So, for me, it's not really the rules and the mechanics. It's the "atmosphere" of the game. I don't like Mongoose's direction.

I loved what DGP and GDW and Paranoia Press and FASA used to do with the game.




That said, Marc's new T5 may very well be the update I've been waiting for. If he ever get it put out.

I'm afraid, though, that his game will die (or be a one-shot) due to lack of support.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 19th, 2010, 07:19 PM
RandyB RandyB is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 439
Gallery : 0
RandyB Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancke2 View Post
As used in Traveller circles, the word simply means an old-timer -- someone who has been involved with the game for a long time. We get it from the war-gaming community, where it means an experienced wargamer.


Hans
*shrug* I have always ascribed a more pejorative tone to the term. Then again, since the CT LBBs were the first (and for a great deal of time, the only) RPG that I ever owned, that makes *me* a grognard by the common connotation.

And I'm not hatin' on MGT. The Rebellion and later metaplot, OTOH...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mgt art Supplement Four Mongoose Traveller 176 December 7th, 2009 10:56 AM
My First MGT Game. Icosahedron Mongoose Traveller 16 December 3rd, 2009 12:47 AM
So, I've got MGT and... StanTheMan Mongoose Traveller 7 January 27th, 2009 11:11 AM
MGT and MT zonk Mongoose Traveller 31 December 1st, 2008 09:41 PM
MgT Serenity Jamus Mongoose Traveller 5 November 29th, 2008 09:52 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.