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  #351  
Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:10 AM
E.D.Quibell E.D.Quibell is offline
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To me Traveller is LBB 1-3 and Supplements 1-2, as these are generic or original Traveller, what others have called proto Traveller.

Classic Traveller is everything else pre MT because this is where we start to see the OTU come into play.

Just MHO.

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  #352  
Old August 10th, 2009, 07:18 PM
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rancke rancke is offline
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Originally Posted by rancke
I've played Traveller games with non-Traveller rules.
Yes, I'm sure, to me that would include, GURPS Traveller, and T20 but to name two.
I disagree that GT and T20 aren't Traveller, but that's not important to the point I was making: That whatever it is that makes one campaign Traveller and another campaign non-Traveller has very little to do with what rules you are using. You can run Traveller games with non-Traveller rules and you can run non-Traveller games with Traveller rules.


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All of which you can have without any of the various Traveller rules.
You could put Battledress and plasma guns in any game, your point being?
That whatever Travellerness Battledresses and plasma guns add to a game is a setting issue, not a rules issue.

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How can a definition of Traveller that excludes something that is clearly labeled 'Traveller' possibly be correct?
Reread what I wrote, its my opinion.
Opinions can be wrong. Flat Earthers are of the opinion that the Earth is flat. I'll reprase my question: How can an opinion of what 'Traveller' is that excludes something that is clearly labeled 'Traveller' possibly be correct?


Hans
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  #353  
Old August 10th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Kilgs Kilgs is offline
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Opinions can be wrong. Flat Earthers are of the opinion that the Earth is flat. I'll reprase my question: How can an opinion of what 'Traveller' is that excludes something that is clearly labeled 'Traveller' possibly be correct?
Because no one can grade opinions.
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  #354  
Old August 10th, 2009, 08:16 PM
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rancke rancke is offline
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Because no one can grade opinions.
You can't? That's going to be news to a lot of people. So the opinion of someone who believes the Earth is flat is just as valid as the opinion of someone who believes it is round(ish)?

In my opinion you're wrong.


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  #355  
Old August 11th, 2009, 06:55 AM
Icosahedron Icosahedron is offline
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
I'll reprase my question: How can an opinion of what 'Traveller' is that excludes something that is clearly labeled 'Traveller' possibly be correct?

Hans

If the opinion is that the label is incorrect. (That's not my opinion, just a logic solution).
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  #356  
Old August 11th, 2009, 08:44 AM
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rancke rancke is offline
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If the opinion is that the label is incorrect.
Good point. I stand corrected.


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  #357  
Old August 11th, 2009, 10:39 AM
Kilgs Kilgs is offline
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An opinion is a personally held conviction. It does not require facts or reality to support it. Your opinion can be all sorts of different than mine but you'll never affect my opinion. You can prove the reality of your opinion (depending on topic) but you really can't ever say my opinion is wrong. It's mine.

It's like grading poetry or art.
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  #358  
Old August 11th, 2009, 11:35 AM
beowulf2044 beowulf2044 is offline
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On the other side, there are those things that are packaged and sold as 'Traveller'. There was a time I was fairly certain I could have had my dog 'Approved for use with Traveller'.
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  #359  
Old August 11th, 2009, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgs View Post
An opinion is a personally held conviction. It does not require facts or reality to support it. Your opinion can be all sorts of different than mine but you'll never affect my opinion. You can prove the reality of your opinion (depending on topic) but you really can't ever say my opinion is wrong. It's mine.

It's like grading poetry or art.
I've just backed down from my position on this particular opinion, so I don't see much to be gained from beating that horse, but in a general sense you're dead wrong. According to Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, an opinion (of the kind we are expressing here) is a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter; or a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge; or a generally held view. That doesn't mean an opinion can't be based on facts. In fact, one of the definitions of 'wrong' in that same dictionary is "having an opinion that does not agree with truth or the facts".

Any opinion (or, if you like, personally held conviction) that isn't based to some degree on facts or reality of some kind is worthless. And the opinion that all opinions are equally valid is a pernicious fallacy.


Hans
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  #360  
Old August 12th, 2009, 01:00 PM
Kilgs Kilgs is offline
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
Any opinion (or, if you like, personally held conviction) that isn't based to some degree on facts or reality of some kind is worthless. And the opinion that all opinions are equally valid is a pernicious fallacy.
While I may agree with you in substance, the reality of opinions and whether or not they are worthless is in the eye of the beholder.
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