Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Mongoose Traveller

Mongoose Traveller Discussion forums for the Traveller rules from Mongoose Publishing.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old May 16th, 2009, 01:08 PM
drh
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Default

Actually, one part of those rules (highlighted below in bold) renders it all useless anyway. This is a quote in full:

Quote:
6) Do not undertake any action to the detriment of the community (this is vague to there can be no loopholes). The list of forbidden actions includes, but is not limited to:

* Trying to pull fans away from here to other Traveller forums.
* Trashing other forums, games, companies, or their products.
* Attempting to solicit personal information.
* Encouraging breaking board rules.
* Arguing with Moderators or Administrators about these rules.
If it's "vague", it's completely worthless. Moderators can simply arbitrarily decide whether or not someone is "acting in detriment to the community" because there is no rigid definition of that behavior. Also, if it's "vague" that means it's FULL of loopholes, not that there aren't any!

We really don't need to use the report buttons. We know the mods are reading (and often actively participating in) those negative threads so they must be aware of the issues. They have to be aware of CotI's bad reputation elsewhere too because of those, so those threads and posters are clearly "acting in detriment to the community here". You've even had Mongoose Matt himself say that this board is "anything but friendly" (see http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...&postcount=372 )!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 16th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Supplement Four's Avatar
Supplement Four Supplement Four is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 9,343
Gallery : 0
Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++Supplement Four Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drh View Post
They have to be aware of CotI's bad reputation elsewhere too because of those, so those threads and posters are clearly "acting in detriment to the community here". You've even had Mongoose Matt himself say that this board is "anything but friendly" (see http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...&postcount=372 )!
It's a quite nice place if you're a fan of what Traveller was and should be.

The original Planet of the Apes, with Charlton Heston, is a great movie.

Tim Burton's updated version, not so much.

Draw your own conclusions.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 16th, 2009, 01:49 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,107
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

I have criticised T20 on these boards - in the hope that something better would come of it (broken bay weapon rules, no way of converting vehicle EPs to ship scale EPs to name just a couple).

Why can't I criticise MgT?

None of the Traveller rule sets is perfect and above criticism - no, not even CT supp 4

If the criticism is constructive where's the problem?
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:00 PM
drh
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
It's a quite nice place if you're a fan of what Traveller was and should be.
Hey, here's the guy who thinks he knows what Traveller is and should be better than Mongoose and even Marc Miller himself!

This is exactly the sort of ridiculous attitude that is poisoning this place, and that needs to be stamped out if this board is to rise above its bad reputation.


Quote:
The original Planet of the Apes, with Charlton Heston, is a great movie.

Tim Burton's updated version, not so much.
And who are you to dictate to people what is "great" or not, exactly? Just because you don't like something or agree with something, that doesn't mean that others are wrong to like it or to agree with it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:01 PM
drh
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Gallery :
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
If the criticism is constructive where's the problem?
There isn't, if that's the case. I'm all for constructive criticism. The problem is that there is a lot of unconstructive criticism going on here.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:06 PM
lucasdigital lucasdigital is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 129
Gallery : 21
lucasdigital Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
It's a quite nice place if you're a fan of what Traveller was and should be.

The original Planet of the Apes, with Charlton Heston, is a great movie.

Tim Burton's updated version, not so much.

Draw your own conclusions.
I'm a huge fan of Traveller, what it was, what it is, and what it will be ... when Marc finishes the latest/next opus. I can't say which edition of Traveller I like best, the editions I had the most gaming experience of are lost in the mists of time, I'm having a blast creating stuff for MgT though.

It pains me to see thread after thread in the MgT forum get bogged down with arguments. It pains me very greatly that members should hint that this isn't going to be a nice place for other members who don't share their opinions on Traveller. There's no reason why we can't all agree to love Traveller, and agree to disagree on issues of colour, flavour and focus.
__________________
Mark Lucas
www.distantplaces.info
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:11 PM
fiat_knox fiat_knox is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 408
Gallery : 0
fiat_knox Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drh View Post
If it's "vague", it's completely worthless. Moderators can simply arbitrarily decide whether or not someone is "acting in detriment to the community" because there is no rigid definition of that behavior. Also, if it's "vague" that means it's FULL of loopholes, not that there aren't any!
Then you have to ask yourself this question, to determine how to judge whether the mods acted in the right or not. If the mods dump a correspondent from the forum, does everybody kick up a stink and ask plaintive questions of the mods about why that person is gone because he made the world sunnier with his wit and ready source of one liners? Or do they breathe a sigh of relief and continue about their business without having to look over their shoulders all the time any more?

If it's the latter, there's nothing vague about the moderators' decision. If they dump someone for being unreasonable, it's because they have perceived that person's behaviour as being unreasonable and detrimental to the welfare of other forumites.

I'm a mod on the Shadownessence WoD boards, and I've participated in plenty of staff arguments where a correspondent's future on the boards has rested on the line. I know the signs when somebody's deliberately kicking up a stink for the sake of it, simply because arguments amuse them. Even now, people still speak of the name of one former troll from that board with a fair measure of bruxation.

The rules are there to keep the peace. I know. Rules like these are up on fora all over the web, virtually word for word. They are not full of loopholes. They are very explicit and descriptive, and binding. Hell, I'm scared of the board rules on SnE and I'm a mod there!

My point being, this topic is the rallying point for everybody who wants the personal attacks and unreasonable behaviour to stop. We post here, as well as everywhere else on CoTI, because we love Traveller. We love gaming it, running it, and writing for it. Some of us have contributed to Mongoose - some of us are still trying to pitch to Mongoose - and some of us are writing stuff in PDFs for the game for third party publishers, with the license that Mongoose has granted us with the permission of Far Future Enterprises.

And what brings us all here to CoTI is that love of Traveller - MGT, here, in particular. We come here to meet up with fellow Traveller grognards who have gamed in any or all of the other Traveller platforms beyond MGT, who love to run stories about nuclear dampers, tactical movements of grav units across battlefields, the soul shattering crack of FGMP-15 fire unleashed and the flocks of Droyne catching the morning breeze over the skies of Regina.

Mongoose Traveller has all of the above elements, and then some. It's here, to stay, and that is something beyond the power of any of the detractors on this board.

So I'd personally recommend counselling discretion and wisdom, and allowing the pro-MGT crowd to enjoy the forum and the game in peace.
__________________
"You people and your quaint little categories." - Capt. Jack Harkness, Torchwood
"I aim to misbehave." - Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:20 PM
tbeard1999's Avatar
tbeard1999 tbeard1999 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tyler
Posts: 2,705
Gallery : 0
tbeard1999 Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_knox View Post
So I'd personally recommend counselling discretion and wisdom, and allowing the pro-MGT crowd to enjoy the forum and the game in peace.
I'd recommend that folks recognize that:

1. A criticism of a game is not the same thing as a personal attack.

2. A "criticism" by definition is an unflattering statement.

3. Reasonable people can and do disagree on matters of personal taste.

4. A critic's alleged biases are irrelevant to the accuracy of his criticisms.

5. Most things can be improved far more effectively by criticism than by unconditional love.

6. The best antidote for inaccurate criticism is to address it, not prohibit it.

7. Mindless defense of something is just as obnoxious and witless as mindless hatred of something.

8. Pavlovian attacks on a game's critics are just as despicable as Pavlovian criticisms of the game.

Last edited by tbeard1999; May 16th, 2009 at 02:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Allensh Allensh is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Pleasant, Michigan
Posts: 461
Gallery : 0
Allensh Citizen
Send a message via ICQ to Allensh Send a message via AIM to Allensh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
I have criticised T20 on these boards - in the hope that something better would come of it (broken bay weapon rules, no way of converting vehicle EPs to ship scale EPs to name just a couple).

Why can't I criticise MgT?

None of the Traveller rule sets is perfect and above criticism - no, not even CT supp 4

If the criticism is constructive where's the problem?
Again...criticism is not the problem, as I see it. Here's what I see as problems:

1.) Repeating the same criticisms over and over again for no reason other than to cause strife. This then ceases to become constructive criticism and becomes harassment.

2.) Doing so in threads where such criticisms have been specifically NOT asked for. Someone starts a thread about liking MgT,wanting to say positive things about it and next thing you know, someone decides to post one of their anti-MgT tirades and said thread is now ruined.

Allen
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old May 16th, 2009, 02:31 PM
Allensh Allensh is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Pleasant, Michigan
Posts: 461
Gallery : 0
Allensh Citizen
Send a message via ICQ to Allensh Send a message via AIM to Allensh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
I'd recommend that folks recognize that:

1. A criticism of a game is not the same thing as a personal attack.

2. A "criticism" by definition is an unflattering statement.

3. Reasonable people can and do disagree on matters of personal taste.

4. A critic's alleged biases are irrelevant to the accuracy of his criticisms.

5. Most things can be improved far more effectively by criticism than by unconditional love.

6. The best antidote for inaccurate criticism is to address it, not prohibit it.

7. Mindless defense of something is just as obnoxious and witless as mindless hatred of something.

8. Pavlovian attacks on a game's critics are just as despicable as Pavlovian criticisms of the game.
again...how many times do we have to hear the very same complaints over and over again before they cease to be criticism and become harassment?

And why do we have to have these criticism even in such threads where that criticism is specifically not wanted?

Allen
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Game kick-off--criticism wanted Garyius2003 The Lone Star 19 May 11th, 2009 09:13 AM
A Criticism of the Bell Curve tbeard1999 Classic Traveller 204 May 11th, 2007 11:44 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.