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  #21  
Old January 4th, 2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rust View Post
The advantage is cancelled out by the difficulty modifiers, which go up to a DM of -6 (and more, if the GM so decides).

So, the character can handle all routine tasks of his field without any prob-
lems (which is just realistic), but there will still be more than enough truly dif-
ficult or even impossible tasks for that character to make the game challen-
ging for the player.
As a practical matter, will this not simply force the GM to arbitrarily increase/decrease the dificulty of tasks to match the inflated/low skill of the character attempting it?

The alternative is many 'impossible' tasks that only 'Super Engineer' can do ... [sarcasm] what fun to play the sidekick to a suprhero [end sarcasm].

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  #22  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
As a practical matter, will this not simply force the GM to arbitrarily increase/decrease the dificulty of tasks to match the inflated/low skill of the character attempting it?
This obviously depends on the GM.

Since my setting is a "sandbox", with fixed task difficulties and the players
deciding which tasks their characters will try their hands on, I will not have
this kind of problem.
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  #23  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vertigo25 View Post
And FWIW, the only character I've made so far does have *one* level 3 skill. And that was after 2 terms as a Scholar, 1 term as a drifter, and 2 terms as a Scout.

I really don't think it's as easy to get all those +2s and +3s as you seem to think it is.
Exactly. You've just proved my point. You've made exactly one character using the MGT rules, and, viola, you got one Skill-3 skill (and it sounds like you wanted more).

This should be possible, but it shouldn't be the norm. A good chargen system for a Traveller game should have a decent chance of creating a character with a Skill-3 but not a probable chance.

Chances are, if you create a PC using the MGT rules, your character will at least have a Skill-3 in one area.

MGT = broken.
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  #24  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:12 AM
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In my opinion, the problem is that the spread of possible outcomes is too small with 2D. Also skill-2 is more than twice as good as skill-1, and skill-3 a lot more than three times, etc.

Back in the old days, I soon changed to 2D to 3D and target number 8 to 12. That helped a lot. (Later I made up my own system using D20s, where I could vary difficulties further by allowing throwing two or even three dice and using the best for routine and very routine tasks and using the worst for unusual and very unusual tasks (with appropriate bonusses and minusses for circumstances. Worked a lot better than any commercial system I've seen, in my biased opinion ))


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  #25  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rust View Post
Just take a look at the skill lists of the various careers. With the exception
of the Barbarian, the characters obviously do not come from low tech worlds,
because otherwise they would have quite different sets of career skills.
I don't know about that...

Medical? Could refer to turn of the centry medicine, what we knew in the 1960's, modern day medicine, or future medical knowledge.

Gun Combat (AutoRifle)? Could refer to M-16 from Vietnam or some futurisitic tech.

I could go on, but I've got to go...buddy here for the gun show...maybe more later.
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  #26  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
A good chargen system for a Traveller game should have a decent chance of creating a character with a Skill-3 but not a probable chance.
A good chargen system should be able to distinguish between dabblers, semi-skilled, adequately-skilled, and professional levels (~amateur, 'apprentice', 'journeyman', 'master'). I've always interpreted skill-1 as amateur/'apprentice', skill-2 as 'journeyman', and skill-3 as 'master'. Medic-1 is the amount of medical knowledge a nurse can get by with, but a professional nurse should really have Nurse-3 (actually, "Nurse-3" should default to Medic-1). To avoid skill proliferation, I'd settle for Medic-1 and Steward-2. But I'd consider someone with nothing but Medic-1 to be unqualified to be a nurse.

And, yes, I do think the various chargen systems throw up some appallingly unqualified characters.


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  #27  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
I don't know about that...

Medical? Could refer to turn of the centry medicine, what we knew in the 1960's, modern day medicine, or future medical knowledge.

Gun Combat (AutoRifle)? Could refer to M-16 from Vietnam or some futurisitic tech.
And Vacc Suit could mean...?

Or Zero-G?

Or how about Astrogation?

All of these are from the Drifter careers. So, even the scum of Travellers can have these skills. Unless you want to tell me Julius Caesar's veterans were masters of the Vacc Suit...
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  #28  
Old January 4th, 2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
In my opinion, the problem is that the spread of possible outcomes is too small with 2D. Also skill-2 is more than twice as good as skill-1, and skill-3 a lot more than three times, etc.
For my current setting we use the Mongoose Traveller character generation
system, and then convert the characters into BRP characters in order to use
the percentile system of BRP for the actual roleplaying in our campaign.
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  #29  
Old January 4th, 2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
The problem with MGT is that it is much too likely that a character will have at least one Skill-3 when he finishes chargen. The system doesn't produce firemen, paramedics, nurses, assistant drive techs, and the like. MGT produces full blown doctors, lawyers, and other ultra-competent professionals.

That's a problem whether Mongoose lovers want to admit it or not.
You keep on asserting this but produce no evidence or argument to justify it.

The only way to guarantee a level 3 skill is to use Connections, so the player has to want it. If he wants to play a doctor or engineer, why prevent him? If he doesn't want to play the pro, he can put those skill points into other skills.

I've probably rolled up a couple of hundred MGT characters now, and only a handful achieve level 3 skills without the Connections rule. Only one achieved a level 4 skill through rolls.

It seems to me that you think MGT is broken because it allows the player to have a character he actually wants to play. Weird.
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  #30  
Old January 4th, 2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
A good chargen system should be able to distinguish between dabblers, semi-skilled, adequately-skilled, and professional levels (~amateur, 'apprentice', 'journeyman', 'master'). I've always interpreted skill-1 as amateur/'apprentice', skill-2 as 'journeyman', and skill-3 as 'master'. Medic-1 is the amount of medical knowledge a nurse can get by with, but a professional nurse should really have Nurse-3 (actually, "Nurse-3" should default to Medic-1). To avoid skill proliferation, I'd settle for Medic-1 and Steward-2. But I'd consider someone with nothing but Medic-1 to be unqualified to be a nurse.
Interestingly enough, CT sets 1 as (essentially) journeyman level, 2 as senior journeyman, and 3 as master; 0 is the amateur.

Apprentices are not "employable" in their field, but skill 1 has always been defined in CT/MT and now MGT as employable/skilled.

Medic 1 is EMT2 qual or better
Medic 2 is defined as nurse (but really is nurse-practitioner)
Medic 3 is defined as MD. (Which, given 10 yrs training time IRL, is master-level)
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