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  #21  
Old December 18th, 2008, 11:08 PM
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In turn, only sadists will find pleasure in pointing out that you were unable to address even a single one of Aramis' points.
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  #22  
Old December 19th, 2008, 12:09 AM
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And masochists are likely to point out that MGT has nothing to fear with regards to T5.
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  #23  
Old December 19th, 2008, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Mongoose has dropped the quality control ball, and not bothered chasing it.
Obviously you haven't seen the T5 cd yet then. All the problems of MT and none of the good parts....
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  #24  
Old December 19th, 2008, 02:44 AM
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No, I've not seen T5... but if y'all want to get me a copy for Christmas, I sure wouln't object. I'm ambivalent about it over all; I'll clearly not use it in entirety, since I can't stand the task system (but, unlike MGT, it's easily replaced with 3d analogue of th DGP...), but I am curious about it. Just not curious enough to spend the money.
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  #25  
Old December 19th, 2008, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
When they keep producing crap?

Paranoia is done out-house; it goes to MGP for print and publish.
Dragon Warriors, likewise. Again, selling on nostalgia value of the name.

The merger with Rebellion is not a partnership; Sprange was bought out. He's just an employee now. That may be a good thing...

... but until the quality control improves, it is nothing but a thing.

They have been harped upon for their lack of QC for the last 2 years. They've had the Traveller license for one of those.

They picked certain narrow aspects to work on; those aspects are not the ones the fans are most upset about.

$40 is what I pay for a very nice, low errata 300 page book from BWHQ... one page of errata in 3 years, most of which are not typos, but clarifications.

Mongoose has 2 pages on 200, not counting the simple non-obfuscatory typos and layout errors.

The RPG industry really needs to cure their mass cranio-rectal insertion and actually get decent proofreading. On of the neatest games I've ever read was unplayable due to typos and spelling errors...

Hunter makes a serious effort. Marc Miller wasn't to the point of being ready for it when the T5 playtest was public. That's just about all BI cared about during the WFRP2E playtest, grammar and spellling.

And then there was the loving attention to detail provided by Liz Danforth, which meant 30 years with no errata for T&T5... 1979 to present. Loads of addenda, but no errata needed.

It can be done.
Don't fool yourself ECHO. Aramis is not the only person who feels this way. At this point, I'm only buying your products after the reviews come out. After Mercenary, I will never buy a product that has Bryan Steel on the author line.

People are getting fed up with this product quickly, because the game is un-fing playable with some of the errors it has. NO AMMO COSTS FOR HEAVY WEAPONS? FFS who playtested Mercenary??? Am I supposed to believe that the playtesters never used a heavy weapon? Or were there simply no playtesters?

That we are expected to endure Bryan Steele's illogical and asinine posts on mongoosepublishing.com/forums while ERRATA for the Mercenary has yet to be published is unforgivable. This author should be banging out errata for FREE if necessary, for if no other reason, to salvage something of his reputation. I'd throw a shoe at him, but I'm far too fond of my shoes to denigrate them so much.

Mongoose needs to get its crap together or they will lose more business.

Last edited by opensent; December 19th, 2008 at 04:51 AM..
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  #26  
Old December 19th, 2008, 05:32 AM
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Another issue that has been harped on by people over on the mongoose boards (including myself) is the lack of EPSF use for the deckplans. By using other formats to import into the PDF the graphics for the deckplans, they are reduced to a fuzzy approx. 100 DPI.... this results in hard to read text on the plans, and on the larger craft, an inability to actually make out what is on the plans.

The chapter header issue on Merc is a 5-sec glance catch. (The running header for the chapters is overstruck on the first page of each chapter. Pages 2, 5, 9*, 15, 37, 42*, 62*, 71*, 80*, 91, 92*, 107; diferent header errors on: 12) This is inexcusable laziness and/or incompetence; in my graduate coursework, that many obvious errors would rate an "F" grade. Sorry, but I saw only ONE error of that kind in 26 manuscripts of T20, and 5 manuscripts of follow-on. And it was fixed before the next draft.

PDF may not be the primary market, but for me, it's the market I buy from.

Mongoose's inability to proof-read to a collegiate standard is why I absolutely will not buy any more dead-tree product from them.
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
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SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
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IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #27  
Old December 19th, 2008, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhialto the Marvelous View Post
In turn, only sadists will find pleasure in pointing out that you were unable to address even a single one of Aramis' points.
Au contraire. You're missing the point. This type of crap has been posted on this site all year round, and none of you have yet cottoned on to the fact that this game release has a) been hugely successful, and b) is going to be around for a long time to come yet. You're a bunch of dinosaurs, who's collossal snobbery and factionism has been holding the game back for years, and are now increasingly becoming marginalised as a tiny minority of dissenters, pretty much on this site alone. It's you people that have been the problem to overcome for Traveller's success, more than anything else for years and years, just from what I've picked up from my experience on this site over the last year or so - and you do now have a lot of people on other sites saying the same thing about you these days. You've got a reputation.

This whole 'I'm not going to buy X or Y' attitude is irrelevant right now. If you don't want to buy into it, then fine, good riddance to you. Nobody cares in the broader Traveller community - which is becoming increasingly sizeable. The gameline will move on well without you, and has done so already from all the evidence of sales figures, as well as the personal experience of seeing groups of gamers who had never even heard of the game before, enthusing over and playing the game for months now. If you're not actually buying the game then your entire complaint about 'Quality Control' is entirely bogus, and increasingly out of touch anyway. Having been buying the books myself, the 'criticisms' here are entirely blown out of proportion.

Merry Christmas.
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Last edited by Echo; December 19th, 2008 at 06:34 AM..
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  #28  
Old December 19th, 2008, 06:56 AM
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I just purchased 4 pdfs. One, well, upon first read, I feel robbed. Literally. That's Mongoose Mercenary.

The complaints about it were not just made here, but on Mongoose's own boards. Bryan Steel has used the oldest dodge in the gaming industry, to wit, "it's playable" to excuse the obvious lack of military knowlege.

Discounting the fanbase's complaints isn't good business practice, Echo. Every complaint I have about Mongoose products relates to production values on books I have purchased, and books I've bypassed because the errata load as evidenced on MGP's own BBS indicates a failure to proof and playtest.

It's not sour grapes over the new edition; it's sour grapes over the new edition being substandard work, at least on a technical pulications level. It fails to meet the standards of editing required by many US undergraduate colleges, ignoring for the moment, the difference in style manuals. When a 4-person, barely makeing a living at it company like BWHQ can produce products with almost no errata, what's Mongoose's excuse?

If Liz Danforth could do it with typewritten manuscripts and genuine typset masters, for T&T, back in 1979...

As for the "broader community"... Mongoose's boards show almost no evidence of a broader community. They show the same grogs that have been arguing traveller for the last decade... here, on the TML, and elsewhere... They also show lots of Nostalgia purchases, tho'. So did T20 at release. T4, ibid.

And the grogs who buy and review do have an impact on overall sales... Otherwise products like Burning Wheel, Orcworld, and SoTC wouldn't reach their audiences.
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
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  #29  
Old December 19th, 2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
I've bought quite a few worse... all in the $5 bin.
For the price regime, they do quite poorly ....
Then you should take a look at the GURPS errata index, for example:
http://www.sjgames.com/errata/gurps/

GURPS is a mainstream product of a well-established RPG company, and
it is on the same price level as Mongoose Traveller, and quite a few of the
GURPS books had more (and more disturbing) editing problems than MGT.
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  #30  
Old December 19th, 2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
And masochists are likely to point out that MGT has nothing to fear with regards to T5.
...even as sado-masochists will clarify that a) duh; b) this has nothing whatever to do with the issue at hand.
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