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  #1  
Old October 27th, 2008, 08:49 PM
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Default CT vs. MGT Character Gen

I had my group roll up characters using MGT Core. They seemed underskilled, and then I realized that in CT supplements like Mercenary, you roll for every year of a term rather than once a term. So you end up with far more skilled characters. It seems like MGT compensates for this by picking up skills from the Event table, but the characters still seem weaker than in CT Mercenary. Judging by the preview, MGT Mercenary also awards skills for every term rather than a chance of picking them up every year.

My impression of CT is that supplements like Mercenary have become de facto core rules, so characters will tend to have more skills than MGT Core. I'm thinking of having my group reroll characters using CT Mercenary/High Guard/Merchant Princes, and then maybe giving them one roll per term on the event table. However, that still leaves the question of what to do with characters like Law Enforcement or Entertainer. Maybe have them roll skills every year?
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Old October 27th, 2008, 09:35 PM
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If you use CT Advanced character generation (ie. Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, merchant Prince) be aware that those books operate under a total skill rank cap of INT + EDU, and have no clear mechanism for giving "rank-0" skills aside from "whatever the Ref wants".

MGT gives more ranks than CT Basic (Book 1 and Supplement 4) though fewer than CT Advanced did, and hands out zero-rank skills liberally. It also provides for characteristic modifiers.

The 2d6 task system gets cranky when PCs have too many skills at rank 3 or more. Keep in mind that even a +1 from stats, skills, or circumstances changes the MGT task from slightly less than an even shot (15 in 36, or 5 in 12) to slightly more than half (21 in 36, or 7 in 12). An adjustment of +3 pops that up to a LOT higher (30 in 36, or 5 in 6).

The upshot of the CT Advanced system is that it will generally hand a player a big pool of acquired skill ranks and force him to trim, causing, in many cases, tailored one-dimensional characters ("I hit CBT Rifleman 5 times, so I'll keep all of those, and... what do you mean I only get to keep 13 ranks total?").

Do as you like, but be informed that the results may be... interesting. Or worse, NOT interesting.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 09:51 PM
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If you enforce the Survival Rule, the way it's supposed to be, then Advanced Chargen from CT Books 4+ will provide about as many skills as one gets in Basic Chargen.

Too many people ignore the Survival Rule (using the optional rule, instead--which does indeed allow Advanced Chargen characters more skills than those generated with Basic Chargen).

Kill off characters and make players start from scratch when they flunk a Survival throw, and you can mix-n-match Basic and Advanced Chargen characters.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
If you enforce the Survival Rule, the way it's supposed to be, then Advanced Chargen from CT Books 4+ will provide about as many skills as one gets in Basic Chargen.

Too many people ignore the Survival Rule (using the optional rule, instead--which does indeed allow Advanced Chargen characters more skills than those generated with Basic Chargen).

Kill off characters and make players start from scratch when they flunk a Survival throw, and you can mix-n-match Basic and Advanced Chargen characters.
In addition you get tons of NPCs for free.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 03:01 AM
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Original LBB4 and 5 had no Int+Edu skills cap - there are even NPCs in Mercenary that break this rule.

It was introduced in an alien module and somehow migrated to the rules - I never use it.

If you trawl through 1001 characters and Veterans you will find plenty of examples of this "rule" being ignored - I never use it.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
If you enforce the Survival Rule, the way it's supposed to be, then Advanced Chargen from CT Books 4+ will provide about as many skills as one gets in Basic Chargen.

Too many people ignore the Survival Rule (using the optional rule, instead--which does indeed allow Advanced Chargen characters more skills than those generated with Basic Chargen).

Kill off characters and make players start from scratch when they flunk a Survival throw, and you can mix-n-match Basic and Advanced Chargen characters.
Couldn't agree more.

And if you enforce the 2d6 stats roll and someone gets 2 for Int and 2 for Edu do not use the stupid Int+Edu cap - Traveller should be a skills based game not a characteristics one IMHO.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Original LBB4 and 5 had no Int+Edu skills cap <snip> It was introduced in an alien module and somehow migrated to the rules
Yup; here's the first occurrence of that rule, as far as I can tell:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Alien Module 2 K'kree, p. 7
Skill Limitations: Characters are limited in skills that can be held to the sum of Intelligence + Education.
Date-wise:

CT LBB 4 Mercenary is 1978;
CT LBB 5 High Guard (2ed) is 1980;
CT LBB 6 Scouts is 1983;
CT AM 2 K'kree is 1984.

CT LBB 7 Merchant Prince is 1985 and CT LBB 8 Robots is 1986.

(Just for those of us who are absolutist rule lawyers )

Last edited by Gruffty; October 28th, 2008 at 05:42 AM.. Reason: More w00tworthig
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Old October 28th, 2008, 05:43 AM
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And on Page 14 it makes it clear that...

K'kree are limited in the number
of skills they have by the sum of
their intelligence and education.

It sounds like a limit that applies to K'kree.

opps crosspost
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Old October 28th, 2008, 06:22 AM
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There's definitely no skill limitiation rule in CT LBB 1 Characters and Combat, CT LBB 4 Mercenary, CT LBB 5 High Guard (2ed), CT LBB6 Scouts and CT Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT The Traveller Book, p. 29
Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT LBB 7 Merchant Prince, p. 31
Skill Limitations: No character should have more skills (or combined total levels of skills) than the sum of intelligence and education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT LBB8 Robots, p. 35
The sum of all the robot's skill levels may never exceed the sum of its intelligence and education.
There doesn't appear to be any skill limitation rule in CT AM1 Aslan, AFAICT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Alien Module 2 K'kree, p. 7
Skill Limitations: Characters are limited in skills that can be held to the sum of Intelligence + Education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Alien Module 3 Vargr, p. 10
Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Alien Module 4 Zhodani, p. 29
Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT AM5 Droyne, p. 20
Skill Limitations: The Droyne characters created by this system should be limited in the number of skills and skill levels that can be held to a value of three times the Intelligence characteristic; for example, a Droyne character of UPP 546424 would be restricted to a total of 12 combined skills and levels of skills.
There doesn't appear to be any skill limitation rule in CT AM6 Solomani, AFAICT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ”CT AM7 Hivers, p. 23”
Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total levels of skills) than the sum of its intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 778948 would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and skill levels. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.
There doesn't appear to be any skill limitation rule in CT AM8 Darrians, AFAICT.

Last edited by Gruffty; October 28th, 2008 at 07:13 AM.. Reason: ...phew!...
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Old October 28th, 2008, 08:25 AM
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Amazing coincidence; I was about to post a query about the origin of the Int+Edu rule today.

Looks like it was introduced in response to the high skill levels resulting from LBB4,5,6. Strictly, it doesn't apply to those books (As noted, one of the Sample Resumes in Mercenary breaks the rule) but I think it's clear that the rule was meant to be retroactive.

Most of the characters I've rolled haven't exceeded the allowance anyway, but it's a real PITA if you're on a roll (pun intended), get a really great character, and then have to cleave skills off him.

I suppose it's down to your GM if the rule is enforced, just like the death or injury choice.

Speaking of which, if the injury terminates your chargen and you have to play a character with a grievous injury (blindness, no legs, etc). It might have the same restrictive effect as death for Chargen Munchkins.

Anybody developed a D66 Chargen Injury Chart?
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