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Old September 8th, 2008, 05:27 PM
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Default What would you like to see changed about MGT?

Ok, if one thing is obvious about these boards, is that there are some very unhappy people about MGT. So ... what WOULD make you happy? It is OGL afterall.

Examples of answers I am NOT looking for:
Mongoose to cease existing.
Anything regarding the OTU or T5.
"Better" ... quality, playtesting, etc

Examples of answers I AM looking for:
ATUs
Different system (i.e. d20 based)
Changes to the skill list (i.e. adding swim)
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Old September 8th, 2008, 06:07 PM
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Are you looking for house rules and such as well?

Just curious.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 06:17 PM
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1. A different combat system. I've given examples of what I think are better mechanics elsewhere, so I won't repeat them here.

2. Fidelity to established Traveller canon. If the game is gonna be called Traveller then it seems to me that it should remain reasonably faithful to Traveller. Things like shuriken catapults should be clearly labeled as non-canon. (Note that I don't necessarily object to implausible weaponry like shuriken catapults and lightsabers; I object to their inclusion as Traveller canon.)

3. Elimination of Timing/Effect system legacies from various systems (like combat).

4. Official options for paring down the number of skills received in character generation.

5. Respect for the gamer. Products should go through at least a rudimentary quality control filter -- editing and playtesting, in other words. The purchaser is not a playtester and shouldn't be treated as such.

6. Better matching of author competence with the subject matter he opines on. People who lack basic knowledge of military affairs should not be tapped to write military supplements. Someone who can't be bothered to learn about guns shouldn't write the 76 Guns supplement. Etc.

7. A comprehensive Fair Use and OGL policy. I'm confident that this will happen, by the way. But since it's not yet finalized, it's on the list.

8. A more careful distinction between Traveller the apparently universal sci-fi RPG system and Traveller, the setting and game series created by GDW and beloved by many fans.

Last edited by tbeard1999; September 8th, 2008 at 06:38 PM..
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:02 PM
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I'm generally pleased with the quality of product that I've been getting from MGT.

But my gruffs are similar to TBeard's.

I can't comment too much as to Traveller canon as I'm somewhat new. (Though "Artillery Battle Dress" sounds a little munchkin and out of place.) While I'm all for mecha, future suppliments should atleast pay attention to TBeard's notion of mentioning that it "isn't canon".
Though Traveller has its roots as a generic sci-fi system, The 3rd Imperium has a life of its own. MGT is encroaching on that fuzzy area by use of its namesake.

I'd like to see more complex ship construction(multiple simultaneously running reactors, engines, specialized atmospheres, etc)... more complex damage (like hull punctures, fires, coolant leaks, viruses)... maintenance related failures('Apollo 13' or K-19 for inspiration, mwuahaha)... more complex planet generation (something a little more organic)... ship combat rules that aren't so abstract and "1 dimensional", small craft construction...

Aside from small craft construction, I'm in the process of homebrewing all of that. But a suppliment would be nice.
I'm sure it is already in the works. So long as the art quality stay above "760 Patrons", I'll continue to be happy.

Last edited by Ran; September 8th, 2008 at 09:05 PM..
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:01 PM
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What TBeard said.

Plus, there's a general "sloppiness" to the Mongoose products. To me, it's evidence of the non-Traveller-competence TBeard spoke of. The game feels, to me, as if it were just slapped together house rules--as if the authors said, "Hey, we've got to make a game, let's slap one together real quick." And, what we got was what they could come up with within the time period allowed, for better or worse. I feel as the authors were not going for excellence. They weren't trying to win any awards or write the best possible set of Traveller rules ever made. It feels to me that it's just another rendition--something anybody could have done. Milktoast.

So, what I object to with MGT is rather nebulous. But, I also feel its evident all over MGT. For hard examples, look at 760 Patrons as an entire book or some of the things TBeard mentioned in Mercenary.

But, I know you want hard example. First, I'll refer to the hard examples TBeard mentioned, because I feel he's spot-on with some of his assessment. From the main book, take a look at the general amount of skills passed out in chargen. It's too many for a 2D6 system. There's potential to break the system there.

Another hard example is the rule to assign stats to taste. That should be an optional rule--not the main rule. It doesn't "fit" Traveller at all. Traveller is hard core and errs towards the realistic. Rules like that are "gamey" rather than "simulationist".

If I went down and listed all the "gamey" rules I see in Mongoose's version of Traveller, the list would be long, indeed.

So, without trying to be purposfully vague, my real object with Mongoose (and what I'd like to see fixed) is the general "so-what-this-will-do" attitude I read in the rules.

It's one of the things that attracts me to Classic Traveller and the main thing that steers me away from MGT.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:40 PM
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What would make me happy would be if MGT fans answered the question I asked a while ago:

What is MGT's "zip"?

What makes it sing?

What's the wow factor?

What are some of its "OMG Awesome" moments?

Put another way, how is MGT not just another game with a more or less workable ruleset on a bloated market that's coasting on a big name from the past to lend it the luster that it itself does not seem to possess?

Note these are actual questions. I'm asking for real, concrete answers, answers made salient using as many examples in as much detail as you wish.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 11:14 PM
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For me:

1) I dislike the current, very vanilla task system.

2) better combat system, using pen vs av as a modifier to damage.

3) Better editing. As in, proof that there is an editor...

4) Deliver what you promise. 760 Patrons isn't. It's 760 Casual Encounters... a different thing.

5) Power system should be in the core rules, not an add-on.

6) Accurate deckplans and designs.

7) spell check and grammar check. They use MS Word; it's obvious they turned these default-to-on features off and/or ignored them.

8) stop dissing the 3I; Traveller and the OTU are nearly synonymous, and have been for 25+ years.

To Answer Rhialto's questions:

MGT's zip is the new trade mechanics. The new CGen is pretty slick, too.

It doesn't sing, but belts merrily along off key. And it's the off key that's a problem.

The wow factor was lost between playtest draft 3 and publication: The T/E driven combat systems.

I loved the playtest combat systems. (I know ty hated them.) Draft 3.2, my players and I ran combats with blades that felt very much like slow-motion SCA Rapier melees. We found fire combat fairly good. Players were taking cover, making scoot-shoot-scoot actions, etc.

Yes, they were a bit boardgamish. But they worked really well for my group.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:11 AM
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If they're planning on going the route that was expressed in the other thing, then the only that I would like to see changed is the name.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:12 AM
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I'm seeing some great suggestions and I'm seeing some I just can't do anything about, hense why I stated in my first post some types of suggestions I am not looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
2. Fidelity to established Traveller canon. If the game is gonna be called Traveller then it seems to me that it should remain reasonably faithful to Traveller. Things like shuriken catapults should be clearly labeled as non-canon. (Note that I don't necessarily object to implausible weaponry like shuriken catapults and lightsabers; I object to their inclusion as Traveller canon.)

5. Respect for the gamer. Products should go through at least a rudimentary quality control filter -- editing and playtesting, in other words. The purchaser is not a playtester and shouldn't be treated as such.

6. Better matching of author competence with the subject matter he opines on. People who lack basic knowledge of military affairs should not be tapped to write military supplements. Someone who can't be bothered to learn about guns shouldn't write the 76 Guns supplement. Etc.

7. A comprehensive Fair Use and OGL policy. I'm confident that this will happen, by the way. But since it's not yet finalized, it's on the list.

8. A more careful distinction between Traveller the apparently universal sci-fi RPG system and Traveller, the setting and game series created by GDW and beloved by many fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
I can't comment too much as to Traveller canon as I'm somewhat new. (Though "Artillery Battle Dress" sounds a little munchkin and out of place.) While I'm all for mecha, future suppliments should atleast pay attention to TBeard's notion of mentioning that it "isn't canon".
Though Traveller has its roots as a generic sci-fi system, The 3rd Imperium has a life of its own. MGT is encroaching on that fuzzy area by use of its namesake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
Plus, there's a general "sloppiness" to the Mongoose products. To me, it's evidence of the non-Traveller-competence TBeard spoke of. The game feels, to me, as if it were just slapped together house rules--as if the authors said, "Hey, we've got to make a game, let's slap one together real quick." And, what we got was what they could come up with within the time period allowed, for better or worse. I feel as the authors were not going for excellence. They weren't trying to win any awards or write the best possible set of Traveller rules ever made. It feels to me that it's just another rendition--something anybody could have done. Milktoast.

So, what I object to with MGT is rather nebulous. But, I also feel its evident all over MGT. For hard examples, look at 760 Patrons as an entire book or some of the things TBeard mentioned in Mercenary.

But, I know you want hard example. First, I'll refer to the hard examples TBeard mentioned, because I feel he's spot-on with some of his assessment. From the main book, take a look at the general amount of skills passed out in chargen. It's too many for a 2D6 system. There's potential to break the system there.

Another hard example is the rule to assign stats to taste. That should be an optional rule--not the main rule. It doesn't "fit" Traveller at all. Traveller is hard core and errs towards the realistic. Rules like that are "gamey" rather than "simulationist".

If I went down and listed all the "gamey" rules I see in Mongoose's version of Traveller, the list would be long, indeed.

So, without trying to be purposfully vague, my real object with Mongoose (and what I'd like to see fixed) is the general "so-what-this-will-do" attitude I read in the rules.

It's one of the things that attracts me to Classic Traveller and the main thing that steers me away from MGT.
The way the OGL is designed to work is that I, a 3rd party freelance writer, can write to the tastes of a specific crowd because they feel they are not served by the core game's design goals/system/etc. But I am not Mongoose and therefore there are certain things I simply will not be able to do anything with. The above are some examples. If you feel that Mongoose's products/policies are not serving you, there is nothing I can do to help remady that. And I definitely not going to be able to do anything about what is and isn't OTU. I feel for you guys, but it is simply beyond my control.

However, the following I CAN do something about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
1. A different combat system. I've given examples of what I think are better mechanics elsewhere, so I won't repeat them here.

3. Elimination of Timing/Effect system legacies from various systems (like combat).

4. Official options for paring down the number of skills received in character generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
I'd like to see more complex ship construction(multiple simultaneously running reactors, engines, specialized atmospheres, etc)... more complex damage (like hull punctures, fires, coolant leaks, viruses)... maintenance related failures('Apollo 13' or K-19 for inspiration, mwuahaha)... more complex planet generation (something a little more organic)... ship combat rules that aren't so abstract and "1 dimensional", small craft construction...
Comments: tbeard1999 - can you provide a link to your combat suggestions that you have posted elsewhere, please? I'd also like to hear more about your points 3 & 4 as well.

Ran - excellent suggestions, thank you.

S4 - To be honest, your gamey/simulationist is possible, but an overhaul of that magnitude that you are describing really is beyond my capabilities at this point in time. I will keep it in mind for the future, though.

And just to be completely upfront, I'm currently working on a non-Traveller project. When its complete, I'm going to be shopping around various publishers to see if they are interested in doing something with Traveller. Having fan suggestions like these are quite helpful when trying to sell a publisher on a project. Thank you, please keep the suggestions coming.
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Last edited by dmccoy1693; September 9th, 2008 at 12:19 AM..
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:53 AM
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Excellent thread, dmccoy1693!

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