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Classic Traveller Discussion on the granddaddy of them all, Classic Traveller!

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  #21  
Old April 20th, 2019, 11:11 AM
Carlobrand Carlobrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoki View Post
I could actually see two ways you could interpret this.

The first is to make it zero and that there is no large free standing bodies of water on the planet.

The second is that the negative number represents even the scarcity of water in some other form (ice, ground water, etc.) meaning that the planet has very little water in any form on it.

This second version could make things interesting for a scenario where you need water for survival, fuel, or whatever and there's very little or none to be found in any form on a world. Now you have the players needing to come up with innovative solutions to a problem. For example you can't just drill a well since there's little ground water... There's no ice to be had anywhere... What do you do?
The UPP doesn't really allow for negative numbers, though I guess you could put a minus in amongst the numbers. I'd leave it up to the gamemaster to flesh out. Maybe it's a Mars with a wee bit of an ice-cap, or maybe what little there is is all underground and needs prospecting, or maybe it's utterly barren - any of those would be interesting. Atmosphere 0 doesn't necessarily mean it's without atmosphere either - it could all be precipitated out as ice and snow on some iceball in the outer region of the system.
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  #22  
Old April 20th, 2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlobrand View Post
The UPP doesn't really allow for negative numbers, though I guess you could put a minus in amongst the numbers. I'd leave it up to the gamemaster to flesh out. Maybe it's a Mars with a wee bit of an ice-cap, or maybe what little there is is all underground and needs prospecting, or maybe it's utterly barren - any of those would be interesting. Atmosphere 0 doesn't necessarily mean it's without atmosphere either - it could all be precipitated out as ice and snow on some iceball in the outer region of the system.
What if a negative value meant that it is normally 0% (i.e. frozen out, etc.), but that at certain times of the year (i.e "summer" or the perihelion of an eccentric orbit) the world received enough heat to (briefly) create an atmosphere or sea equal to the absolute value of the negative atmosphere/hydrographic value?
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  #23  
Old April 20th, 2019, 01:13 PM
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Forgive me for disgressing a little, but if we begin to accept negative numbers in UWP, what would a negative government mean?

And what about a negative law level? weapons, vendetas and Linch law encouraged?
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  #24  
Old April 20th, 2019, 04:21 PM
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negative law level - we PAY you to shoot people!
negative government - the ultimate form of libertarianism: you can do anything until it interferes with someone else

I've always set anything < 0 to be 0 and never thought about negative values. Figured 0 was the floor and 15 the ceiling (aka max) in keeping with the pseudo-hexadecimal thing (sorry - when I got into Traveller Iwas in college and computer science, and hexadecimal was used a lot back then so Traveller was a natural fit for me )
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Old April 20th, 2019, 11:05 PM
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In terms of actual volume to planet size, you could have vast underground oceans, and nothing on the surface.

Probably would require footnotes after the descriptive entry.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
In terms of actual volume to planet size, you could have vast underground oceans, and nothing on the surface.

Probably would require footnotes after the descriptive entry.
That's what I have done in some instances of world building to explain a large population on a desert world. That and I may institute a survey index indicating just how much actual surveying was done, ranging from "we put a satellite in orbit for a couple of hours" to "we spent months there with several camps and interviewed locals"
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  #27  
Old April 21st, 2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whulorigan View Post
What if a negative value meant that it is normally 0% (i.e. frozen out, etc.), but that at certain times of the year (i.e "summer" or the perihelion of an eccentric orbit) the world received enough heat to (briefly) create an atmosphere or sea equal to the absolute value of the negative atmosphere/hydrographic value?
Well, frozen water is still water. Worlds with vacuum atmosphere can have hydro ratings above 0; those are ice caps. A world with ephemeral water resulting from seasonal changes would still have the same hydro percentage year round - its state just changes.

Problem is there's no consensus about what a negative number would mean, which means it still ends up being up to the gamemaster, which renders it ineffective as a means of communicating information. If we want an x-factor entry for weird water situations, we can put in an X and save a space.
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