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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #1  
Old April 15th, 2018, 08:17 PM
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Hey, what exactly is a Grand Duke in the OTU? How many are there? What are their roles and powers?

I've seen that they're sorta strange "side" titles without a lot of power.
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  #2  
Old April 15th, 2018, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Hey, what exactly is a Grand Duke in the OTU? How many are there? What are their roles and powers?

I've seen that they're sorta strange "side" titles without a lot of power.
They are grandchildren of an Emperor. Royals below prince, not nobles, if you see the distinction.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 09:48 PM
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Sweet!
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  #4  
Old April 15th, 2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Sweet!
It's a borrowed from the russian system.

The current head of the Romanov family is styled Grand Duchess; her Great Great Grandfather was a Tsar.

At various points after Piotr I, Grand Counts and Grand Barons were used for various non-heir Royals. The Grand simply indicated it was a royal, not a noble, title. It was usually accompanied by an annuity or small fief.

Note that Russians used the following titles...
Emperor
Prince
Duke
Count
Baron

Duke was not part of the Noble titles, but Prince was... Finland was theoretically the Grand Ducal fief of the Tsar's Uncle...

There were ...
Ancient Nobles - Princes, Counts, and Barons - heritable. Enfeoffed.
Titled Nobles: Princes, Counts, and Barons - heritable, enfeoffed.
Honor Nobles: children of Ancient or Titled. Non-heritable, but spouse uses and retains in widowhood. No fief.
Reward Titles: Princes, counts, barons - non-heritable, but spouse retains for life.
Heritable unenfeoffed: Usually a lateral from a reward. Children use while alive, spouse uses and retains until death. Heir retains.

Sound familiar?
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  #5  
Old April 16th, 2018, 08:22 AM
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The English system is easier.

The firstborn son inherits everything, including any titles.

Depending on the parental nobility grade, his siblings can be referred to as Lord, Lady, or the Honourable.

And then you either marry into another noble house, money, bribe the ruling party, do something bureaucratically brilliant or stupid in battle.
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  #6  
Old April 16th, 2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
The English system is easier.

The firstborn son inherits everything, including any titles.

Depending on the parental nobility grade, his siblings can be referred to as Lord, Lady, or the Honourable.

And then you either marry into another noble house, money, bribe the ruling party, do something bureaucratically brilliant or stupid in battle.
Spanish system is similar, but untitled noble sons were called hidlagos (from hijos de algo, roughtly "sons of something"), the most famous of them probably being Don Quijote. I guess the equivalent status in England would be squire, once it became akin of a lesser title...

See that in V&V we're told that for Vilani the third son inheritated titles, and I guess other sons were akin those hidalgos or squires, that had to find their role in life having the advantages of family connections and status, but not being nobles "per se".
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  #7  
Old April 16th, 2018, 01:43 PM
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If you have the right ancestors, and hopefully trusted funded or self sustaining, you're still in the aristocracy even if you don't have a title.

The first son inherits, the second is sent to the army, and the third joins the clergy, which would be the other two national institutions to infiltrate.

Substitute the bureaucracy, navy, business, diplomat corps and colonial service. Possibly academia.

That maintains it's own old boys network.
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  #8  
Old April 16th, 2018, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
The English system is easier.

The firstborn son inherits everything, including any titles.

Depending on the parental nobility grade, his siblings can be referred to as Lord, Lady, or the Honourable.

And then you either marry into another noble house, money, bribe the ruling party, do something bureaucratically brilliant or stupid in battle.
And, excepting the titles, very unlike the 3I.
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  #9  
Old April 16th, 2018, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
It's a borrowed from the russian system.

The current head of the Romanov family is styled Grand Duchess; her Great Great Grandfather was a Tsar.

At various points after Piotr I, Grand Counts and Grand Barons were used for various non-heir Royals. The Grand simply indicated it was a royal, not a noble, title. It was usually accompanied by an annuity or small fief.

Note that Russians used the following titles...
Emperor
Prince
Duke
Count
Baron

Duke was not part of the Noble titles, but Prince was... Finland was theoretically the Grand Ducal fief of the Tsar's Uncle...

There were ...
Ancient Nobles - Princes, Counts, and Barons - heritable. Enfeoffed.
Titled Nobles: Princes, Counts, and Barons - heritable, enfeoffed.
Honor Nobles: children of Ancient or Titled. Non-heritable, but spouse uses and retains in widowhood. No fief.
Reward Titles: Princes, counts, barons - non-heritable, but spouse retains for life.
Heritable unenfeoffed: Usually a lateral from a reward. Children use while alive, spouse uses and retains until death. Heir retains.

Sound familiar?
Another system to check out is the Nobility structure of Pre-Revolutionary France, which also bears some similarities:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nobility

Also note that on the European continent (such as Germany & Italy), the noble title would often be inherited by all of the male descendants (who would all be considered "noble"), though the lands/fief would only go to the principal heir, leaving many younger-son "nobles" without significant financial means.
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Lord Richard Elruinn Ilendrick Rhovanion of Rhylanor
Count RhovanionSPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-FSir Richard, Knight (Kt)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F
MarquisSPIN 0433 Jone B792785-9Sir Richard Elruinn, Knight (Kt)FORN 0727 Dirli C994422-8
Baronet of Jae TellonaSPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8Knight of Deneb (KD)SPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8
Baron of the Third ImperiumSPIN 3220 Powaza C787566-5Knight of the Third Imperium (KTI)SPIN 3235 Trin A894A96-F
Knight of the Iridium Throne (KIT)CORE 2419 Sevan A544576-A
Richard Elruinn Rhovanion (TAS Member #0008)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F

Other Awards
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Duke of the Third ImperiumREAV 3209 Kylian BA57742-A
Duke of KhouthCORR 0104 Khouth A8C3999-D
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Baron of ImlaarDENE 2212 Imlaar D677551-6SEH - For Extreme Heroism @ The Battle of Ruby
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  #10  
Old April 17th, 2018, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whulorigan View Post
Another system to check out is the Nobility structure of Pre-Revolutionary France, which also bears some similarities:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nobility

Also note that on the European continent (such as Germany & Italy), the noble title would often be inherited by all of the male descendants (who would all be considered "noble"), though the lands/fief would only go to the principal heir, leaving many younger-son "nobles" without significant financial means.
Bolshoi Piotr intentionally made reward and rank-derived titles non-hereditary to give the sons of such nobles incentives to do government service. He provided for lateral to heritable and then enfeoffed to provide incentives to keep working...

It all fell apart around 1900...
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
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